Tom Evans | 2023 Western States 100 Pre-Race Interview

Welcome back, or welcome to the Single Track Podcast. I'm your host, finn Milansen, and in this episode I'm talking with Tom Evans, ahead of the 2023 Western States 100. This episode is brought to you by Hoka a rabbit Morton and Features. Head to the show notes page of this episode for new product releases and discount codes from each of our four sponsors. With that, let's get started, tom Evans, welcome back to the Single Track Podcast.

Hey Finn, how are you doing? Thanks for having me back.

I'm doing great. We're recording this on the Saturday before Western States, a week before the race, and I'm starting to feel the vibes. Things are exciting here in Olympic Valley. How about you?

Yeah, super exciting. I'm not quite in Olympic Valley. I'm in Phoenix at the moment just sort of on my final little bit of heat prep before the race, even though it's not looking like it's that hot. I typically I think Western States has got the vibe is when people say it's a cool year. it's still not cool, it's still actually hot. So, yeah, i'm super excited and it's 5pm now. Yeah, i'm not entirely sure where I'll be on the course in seven days time, but hopefully significantly close to the finish from the start.

Well, I want to start this conversation by going back in time to 2019. You got third place at the Western States 100. You ran 14, 59, 44. That's a superb debut at this race by any measure. but in retrospect, and after you've had time to analyze the day, I'd love for you to compare what you were optimizing for on that day compared to what you're optimizing for heading into this year, And I think I'm most curious to know if anything has changed between those two years for you.

Yeah, great question. Firstly, i'll answer the second half of the question has anything changed? Yes, so much has changed My training, my methodology, my mentality. I think I went into Western States 2019 probably fairly naive, having not done a hundred mile race before And, yeah, i was still approaching sort of fast at trail running races like Western States as a marathon training, but with some longer, slightly more specific runs, whereas this year, with Western States, there's just been so much emphasis put on two things really. Firstly, consistency, and this is by far the most consistent I've ever been. Yeah, i was looking back through my Strava and through my Garmin the other week and I got married at the end of last year And so far this year, including races and down weeks and everything, i've averaged 126 miles a week, which for me is just unheard of, like touch wood. I've not had a niggle for pretty much the whole year And I've not missed a single day of program training. So I guess that's one thing that's changed. And then the second thing that's really changed is just even more specificity to a race like Western States. So for me, highlighting the key things, why reasons go wrong at Western States, it's mainly two reasons or three reasons. Firstly, people say, oh yeah, my quads were shot, i just can't run, so it was a okay. Well, how can I give myself the best chance of having being able to run downhill and run? well, so, actually spent loads of time like working on biomechanics, running fast downhill to just try and reduce the muscle damage, Also working really closely with Adidas Terrex on that, so creating a shoe that, yeah, we can run downhill, reducing muscle damage. The second thing is the heat And, yeah, before like a really really in-depth heat protocol with a couple of physiologists, i've started working with a company called Santaratec And one of my main physiologists is Ola Valegsandar Blu. So for any triathlon listeners, he's the coach of Christian and Gustaf And they've obviously performed incredibly well in the heat. So, yeah, it's been really fun. Yeah, coming at it from a slightly different approach with him. And then the third and final reason why things, a lot of things, go wrong people at Western States is nutrition people not being able to eat, and that's a mixture of the heat. And then, because it's such a fast-paced race, being able to get the amount of calories and carbohydrate in and work really closely with both Morton and Red Bull, who are my sub-energy and like hydro gel carbohydrate partners And, yeah, just being able to optimize optimize my nutrition, that I'm able to take in way more carbohydrate than I've ever done before. Like, if I compare it to UTMB last year, i'm taking 20 grams of carbohydrate an hour more at Western States than I was at UTMB. Yeah, we've seen a direct correlation of the more carbohydrate you can consume, the better your performance is.

If I remember correctly back in 2019, you were all liquid calories in that race. Is it going to be the same strategy at this time, Or I'd talk more about that approach?

Yeah, i think it's a real. It's going to be a combination of, yeah, liquid and gel, and I think for me, that's the really nice thing about a company like Morton is that, yes, the liquid is more liquidy, but it's still a hydro gel, so it's not being absorbed in your stomach. It's going into your intestine and being absorbed there, so it's just massively reducing the amount of yeah, of risk there is on your stomach. There are a couple of new products from Morton coming out fairly shortly after Western States. So, yeah, keep your eyes peeled if there are any pigs of me having any gels or drink mix. Yeah, it's really, really exciting instead of what they've done. So, yeah, it will be a combination of, yeah, i use Morton the 320 drink mix, which has got eight grams of carbohydrate in, and then a couple of their different gels, some of which are on the market, some of which are bad hit the market. And then, for my caffeine, which has been something that we've really worked on as well, 95% of it's going to come from Red Bull, which is, yeah, it's something that we've practiced really hard in training and in race applications. So, yeah, it's really excited for it.

Do you subscribe to the high carb, high caffeine approach Like talk about, like the breakdown and amount of caffeine, for example, that you anticipate taking in this race?

So I think caffeine for this. I've got a fairly high tolerance to caffeine and I did a race in Snowden in the UK like six weeks ago and the six hour race, and we were trialling 100 milligrams of caffeine an hour for that. So I ended up taking 600 milligrams in six hours. I won't be quite that aggressive and I won't be that aggressive from the beginning, but I will. yeah, from forest hill to the finish will be pretty aggressive, assuming things are still going to plan. However, for me it's a high caffeine dose is almost like a get out of jail free card. If I feel myself starting to bonk, it's a okay, smash 200 milligrams of caffeine and hope to ride it out pretty quick rather than just feeling sorry for yourself that you're about to start bonking.

Yeah, If I remember correctly, and this might have been back in February or March, you were talking with Dylan on the free trail podcast and you had mentioned, when you were thinking about solving for that, the heat party, the equation at this race. You actually you picked up Specific insights from the, the British Olympic team when they were getting ready for Tokyo a few years back. Well, what were some of those insights and what are you taking from that to apply to Western States this time around?

Yeah, so before I came out. So I've never been in the US, i've been in. I base myself in flagstaff, arizona, for the last four weeks, with a little bit of time in Phoenix as well just to get some heat. But before I came out to the US I did a really intensive heat training protocol In an environmental chamber at Loughborough University where we live, where me and my wife Sophie live, and Yeah, i guess what we, what I did, it was just really easy to monitor the exact temperature. I was using a three different core body temperature measuring devices, ones like a core, a Core sensor that sort of sits on your heart rate monitor On the side just of using that and then a tin panic So just measure it in the air. And then, thirdly, like a core body pill. So you just take a pill To between four and six hours before your heat session and then it scans with Bluetooth And you can see it on a computer, your exact core body temp. So yeah, i get what we were doing with. That was one getting the heat adaptations and but then two at the same time just collecting Heaps and heaps of data. So I knew when I give, my heart rate gets to a certain Point and I start feeling hot and I know what those feelings are. Then it's because my core body temperature is Rising. And then what we then able what we were then also able to do was then test some cooling strategies and See what actually works. Because I think you go to a race like Western States and there's so much Knowledge of people doing things and it sort of almost becomes a bit like through the saying of, like an old wives tale of oh Yeah, this is, this is what everyone's doing, this must be what's best. So it was actually really nice to be able to not dispel some myths, but it's like okay, well, how do I actually cool my core body temp down? because feeling cool and being cool To can be two very different things.

When you, when you survey all the different components of your Western States strategy. So this could be the heat, it could be the psychology component, nutrition. Does all of it feel dialed in, like you're confident in each of the components, or is are there any parts of your strategy that you feel like are Experimental in nature and you're taking some some sort of a risk on race day to see how they pan out?

I Tried everything. I guess the only, as with every hundred mile race, the oh, you can train as specifically as you want, but you can't train that specifically because you're not running a hundred miles in training. So, like, my longest run, distance wise, has been a hundred K. There was a black canyon. Yeah, i've done a couple of, a couple of runs that have, in time wise, it been as long or longer. So I guess, yeah, i've only run. As for time, like Half of what I will at Western States, i guess that's that phase of it is an unknown, as it is for everyone doing any race ever. But so, like, yeah, i kind of I don't think you necessarily get the fitness needed for a race in the. So the weeks and months before it, i think you get it in the sort of the months and years before and even, yeah, after you do a hundred mile a day. The experience and the fitness doesn't just leave your body, you keep hold of it. So I still think, even from yeah, i remember it from 2019, i remember it from UTMB last year And I compared to UTMB, like the longest one I did before UTMB was 10 hours, so it was half of what the time actually was come race day and it's fine, and Western States is a different beast because You're running 95% of it, hopefully, unless things go, unless things start to go wrong. I guess the one Yeah, the one risk is I didn't bring a head torch from the UK, so Thankfully I've got a garment in duro too, with a light on the front. But I will, i will have a head torch with me, but, yeah, i am not.

I haven't practiced using it at all that reminds me There's definitely been other runners of your caliber Jim Wamsley comes to example who have run every step of this course and route to a Winner, a podium finish. Are you suggesting that there have been parts of the data that you've looked into where, sure you could run the whole course, but it's actually more efficient for you to hike in certain sections? and if so, what are some of those points in the race Do you imagine?

It's gonna be a super interesting race this year because of the conditions in the. So I almost break the race into into three different parts from the start to Romans, robinson flat, from Robinson flat to Forest Hill, from Forest Hill to the finish and they're just so they're such three different and to sink sections, like I think the first 30 miles are gonna be really slow and there's gonna be lots of looking around. I really wouldn't be surprised if, like, coming into Robinson flat, there was a group of, i think with the guys They'll probably be, there might be one or two off the front because there are a couple of unknowns in the race, like some of the Chinese athletes. Yeah no one really knows about. I know they like to run hard and it might work, it might not, who knows. I think a couple will go off the front and even though it's gonna be a cool the air It's still really hot and Yeah. So I think the first third will be pretty slow, as there'll be quite a lot of looking around and it'll be yep, not great conditions. I then think From Robinson to Forest Hill is gonna be different for a lot of people because of because of the fires, because of the floods like there is. It's gonna be so exposed, whereas normally, even though it's not a hot year, you're still gonna get that solar radiation for three, four, five hours longer than you would have done in the race Before. And it's lots of switchbacks and you're forever change direction, so the Sun is always changing location on your body. So I think Getting into a cooling strategy pretty early on, even if you're not hot, is gonna be pretty important. So I think that sort of phase the race won't be. I didn't be fast, but I don't think you'll be slow, like it will probably be a little bit. So the course record pays, but I think that the the final 40 miles from Forest Hill, i would be, i'd bet everything on it. Now that I think that the, if there is a Strava segment from Forest Hill to the finish, i Guarantee that that will go this year. Wow, so I think I think it's gonna be. I think the winning time will be 428. I don't know who's gonna do it. I'm not saying I'm gonna run 428 14 1428. Yeah, 1428. Okay, and I think that's. I think that's what it's gonna take to win, but I think it will be the equivalent of a negative split and, compared to Jim's course record, i think it will be Five, six minutes quicker from Forest Hill to the finish.

So your pace chart for this race is centered around a mid 14-hour finish.

That's what I, that's what I think it's gonna take, but in a the pace. But it almost goes off like a Fifth, just over a 15 hour for the first third of the race, that sort of pace chart, and then probably goes to like a 1445 for the midsection and then a sub 14 for the Final 14 fascinating.

Well, i want to bring this up. So you have an excellent V-log series on YouTube that we'll link to in the show notes. But you mentioned in one of the latest ones that if you do you Tim be later this summer It'll be a big swing like you'll take a lot of risks, you'll run aggressively, whereas with states You're gonna run this thing as tactically as you can. And I guess the question I have off that is What does it mean to run a tactical race at Western? because if you're running mid 14s, i mean that's that's one that's gonna be one of the fastest times on record. That's gonna be pushing things. So I think very curious to hear your thoughts on that.

I'm not necessarily saying that I think I'm gonna run Mid 14s. I think saying that I think the person who is going to win, in order to win, i think you have to have an amazing day and I think you're gonna have to run really quick. I think they're gonna be pretty. I wouldn't be surprised if the whole podium was on. The whole men's podium was sub 15, yeah. So I think, yeah, the risks, yeah, in order to run a race like this, like I Don't know, i think there's, there's definitely an element of Looking around, seeing what other people are doing, learning a little bit more about some of the other athletes, but then, at the same time, like, where is it? UTMB? It takes quite a long time to blow up and you can. You're now, even if you really blow up and if you're moving, no one's really moving that much quicker than you, whereas I think that At states like when you blow up, you blow up immediately and you start walking And if you should be, if there are people running behind you and you're walking, they catch you so quickly because it's such a massive pace different. So, yeah, i sort of very, very much plan on Running my own race of what I think I'm capable of doing with a yeah, with a very like Decisive race plan, yeah. But having said that, like there's a military saying that no plan survives, first contact, yes, so you can go in with the best race plan in the world, but it takes an awful lot of confidence to stick to it And actually things might happen that you've got to adapt to and you actually decided, oh wait, no, i'm gonna, i'm gonna go with this or oh, no, i'm not gonna go with that. So, yeah, i think it's gonna be a. It's gonna be a super fascinating year, both on the men's and on the ladies side, like For me, i think the yeah, the men's field is probably getting a Little bit more because it's so open, like I don't think there's like an out-and-out Yeah, favorite where the ladies race. Like there probably is an out-and-out favorite and everyone's a lot of people think, oh Well, they're just fighting for second and third. But I think they're from having spoke, spoken to a couple of the girls who are running, i think they're gonna be some. I think they're gonna be some surprises, which is, yeah, which is super, super exciting. I think that's gonna be even more exciting than the men's race to watch.

Just a few more questions, and this is something that I've always been fascinated with with world-class runners like yourself. If you have a Template to run your own race, but the front of the pack has different plans, and they just take it from the gun and go, you know, way off plan, way off pace course. Have you visualized a moments where You can refrain, you can stop yourself from wanting to be a part of that and stick to the plan? like, how do you think about that?

Yeah, definitely, and I've had experiences where that's happened and I've gone with it, and I've always had experiences where that happened and I haven't gone with it. So I rewind back to UTMB last year. That's exactly what happened. There was a group of five of us running and then Jim and Killian went off the front and I said, nah, it's way too early for me. I want to. Yeah, i'm just going to stick at it. And it worked out well enough to sneak onto the podium, and in another year that might have been enough to do a little bit better, who knows. And then, yeah, there are other examples that I've gone with it and it's been okay, and there are other examples where I've gone with it and I've blown up, and everyone else from that group has also blown up. So, yeah, i think it's a race like Western states. It is so conditions dependent. Like if it's a couple of degrees warmer, you do have to drop the pace a couple of seconds a mile, and if it's a couple of degrees warmer, your heart rate or your effort level is going to go up. So, yeah, i think plans, race tactics and race plans have got to be super adaptive and, yeah, you've just got to trust that I think what I've done has been the best training that I possibly could have done and, yeah, i hope for a great day, but you never know what's going to happen. So, yeah, i just really hope that I can bring my very best and if I have my very best race that I think I'm capable of having and I finish 12th well, incredible for the 11 guys and probably a couple of girls in front of me at that point. And so, yeah, i think it's. Yeah. All I'm all I'm asking for is to have, yeah, to have the best race that I possibly can, and if that's good enough for the wind and that's great. But yeah, i just want to. Yeah, i just want to show everyone and show myself sort of, how hard I've worked. And just because you've done great training doesn't mean you're going to have great racing. And you see so many people who train amazingly but never convert in races, and then you see people who don't train particularly well but just convert in races. So, yeah, it's going to be a wild one, i think.

You've already had an all time great result at this race. 2019, by all measures, was an all time great result here. I think it's the fastest time by a European runner on this course, in addition to being one of the fastest times on record. When you think about the mission here and the reasons for returning, i know that you kind of went through just the thought process of being satisfied in various different circumstances, but at its simplest, is the mission to win here. Like are you coming in here hoping, expecting to win this race, if things go right?

I think, yeah, i'd like to think that my best, i'd like to think that, yeah, when I finished third here in 2019, it was a great result and I guess for me at that point, i just racing in the US is so different, isn't it so different to racing in Europe? And yeah, i guess I just fell in love with the culture and I just loved the whole energy around the race, before the race, during the race, after the race, in the aid stations, the other athletes. It's so different to anything else I'd experienced. And I guess, sort of analysing on it and having success in Europe, yes, it gives me a very I love racing and I love doing well in racing. But for me, yeah, i definitely still don't think I've performed to my greatest at Western States yet. Yes, 2019, i was really happy, but it was my first 100 miler. I still made lots of mistakes and I think I've learned a lot and developed a lot more as an all-round athlete, especially in the longer but fast races. So, yeah, i think, yeah, the goal is to have my best possible day and I'd love yeah, i'd absolutely love to win. It would be a complete dream come true. I just really hope that. I would much rather and I genuinely mean this I'd much rather have an amazing race and have a way more enjoyable experience with everyone else, and everyone runs their very best. But typically what happens in a race like Western States is out of the bookies favourites for the top 10, there'll be a couple who drop out, and I just really hope that doesn't happen. I really hope that everyone in the men's and in the ladies' field and really more so in the men's field, because we tend to race a little bit more aggressively, especially early on I say race more aggressively, race a bit more stupidly, myself included, and yeah. So I really hope that everyone is prepared really well and we can just sort of have an amazing battle out there with each other and be friends before, during and after, but, yeah, really sort of squeeze out the best performance out of everyone that we possibly can.

I got to ask you one more question and this is referencing that episode you did with Dylan earlier this winter because I think you said something pretty profound. You said it might surprise some people I spend more time on a weekly and monthly basis consulting with my psychologist sports psychologist than I do with my exercise physios, coaches, etc. I found that fascinating and maybe we can tailor this question to Western States in talks with your sports psychologist. What does some of the self-talk look like to override those inevitable low moments in this race? It could happen, you know, at Devil's Thumb, it could happen at Forest Hill, it could happen at Greengate. Talk us through some of the strategies there.

I think the difficult thing of doing well in a race and then coming back hoping to do better is that it's very easy to compare yourself to your previous self and to look at my splits and think, oh, if I want to run sub 15, well, this is how I did it last time and it's sort of yeah, you compare yourself to yourself, but especially race like Western States and especially race like this year, it's almost impossible. So I'm almost seeing as a completely yes, it's on the same course, but it's almost as like a completely different race. So it's. Don't compare yourself to the previous results you've had here. Just because things went well, something's went well, some things went badly. Don't compare yourself to the previous version of yourself. Even if now, physiologically, you're a better athlete, mentally you're a stronger athlete, don't compare. If things start to go wrong, don't think, oh well, i finished on the podium before, so I can do it again. Like it's a. This is a completely new chapter, it's a completely new challenge. There are so many other external factors, so I think that's probably been a really big one. But I guess also as well like I've not raced that much this year and I have put all of my eggs in one basket with this race, so I guess it's just the self, i suppose starting that again a little bit. I think what a lot of people do is they'll get really close to the race and then they'll start feeling nervous and then they'll start questioning things, whereas for me, i guess I micro dose it the whole time through training. I have a bad session, i'll then analyze it, work through it mentally and then I can put it to bed. So I can hopefully arrive in race week with minimal worries at all and I don't really need to think about it because it's kind of taken care of itself, whereas I think a lot of people sort of stand on the start line oh, have I done enough? or in the couple of days before, or listening to other people's interviews and saying sort of tempting, like me, and saying, oh, i've run 125 miles a week since January And I could have run 126 miles since January, so it doesn't like stuff like that. And so for me like I hear people saying it or doing whatever, and I guess what we've worked, tried to work really hard at doing is dealing with it then and then and then being able to put it to bed, so when other things come up you just don't get overwhelmed. So yeah, i'm hoping that I can sort of approach race day feeling pretty fresh. And then that then means when I'm then in the race and things start to go bad, like I know something will go wrong in the race, like that's sport, that's trail running, and it's it's that acceptance of it. I know something's going to go wrong. I can tell you this now, and we can have a jet after the race And I said, yeah, it's this moment where I knew where something went wrong. And at that point it's how you deal with it, both mentally and physically. Like if it is your stomach, okay, cool. Well, it almost you take it out from being a mental problem, because it's probably going to be a physical problem rather than a mental problem. So it's a. Okay, well, my stomach's bad. Okay, well, that's fine. Like this has happened to you before in training. And what did you do? Oh well, i just changed what I was fueling on. Okay, don't panic, then It's easy. Like there's no. Like if you've, if you've gone through it before in training and you've sort of thought about it and you've got plan B, plan C, plan D, then when things start to go wrong, you don't question yourself, and then that means that there will be no. I won't be able to compare myself. It's almost sort of taking some of the emotion out of my negativity, because physically, i feel like I'm so prepared And I yeah, i think I've got a plan for when things do go wrong that I can just take the emotion and the stress out of it. I am going to bonk at some point in the race. Cool, when that happens, i know what I'm going to do, rather than bonking thinking, oh no, this is all going bad. I'm in seventh place in 2019. In my first time doing this race, i finished on the podium, but now I'm going to finish sixth. Like for me. Like that doesn't, that doesn't matter, that doesn't phase me at all, because I'm not one, i'm not comparing myself to a previous version of myself. And that's the beauty of sport, because just because you think you're better than you were back then doesn't mean you're going to get a better result. And then, secondly, like because I have, i feel like I have prepared both mentally and physically. It gives me so much confidence that when things do start to go wrong, i then know how to deal with it.

Tom, it's been such a pleasure to have you on the show. Thank you so much for adding to the excitement of this race. Also, I've just always appreciated your intellectual approach to the sport And I think it's just contributed so much to how other athletes like yourself can get better and move the sport forward. So I know this is a hectic time pre race, but we really appreciate your generosity and your time and best of luck out there.

Ben, thank you so much And, yeah, keep doing what you're doing. I've listened to every episode, so yeah, keep up the good work and see you soon.