Seth Ruhling | 2023 JFK 50 Champion

Finn (00:00.97)
Alright Seth Ruhling, it is a pleasure to have you on the Singletrack Podcast. How are you doing today?

Seth Ruhling (00:05.985)
Doing good, doing good. Thanks for having me on. Pretty stoked to be on this podcast.

Finn (00:13.111)
Well, it's an honor to have you here. I was just saying offline, I've been waiting for the perfect moment to get you on. And I think wrapping up the 2023 season is the perfect place to do it. We're catching you two days post JFK. What's the feeling right now?

Seth Ruhling (00:28.981)
I'm sore. I am so sore right now. Like, you know, it's kind of funny. Like you think like I've done enough of these ultras where it's like I'm used to it. This one hit hard. I feel like, yeah, very, that's probably like the most, the most like extreme feeling right now is like, I can't hardly move still. But other than that, very excited, very happy to like, yeah, I don't know.

come off a good JFK. Like, I don't know, that race is like, it's super fun. It's where I kind of started in sort of the elite side of the sport, so it's kind of nice to go back and win. And yeah, like after not really getting too many, too many wins or any wins in like 18 months or so, it's kind of nice to win something.

Finn (01:21.398)
Well, just based on what I saw in Strava, you clearly quote unquote went for it this time around. And I guess the first question I have is like, when you think about all the races you line up for, does every race have a different strategy or is it always the same thing and no matter what you're going like Zach Miller style and it's to the well, and this is just a unique scenario where you're sore for whatever reason.

Seth Ruhling (01:40.35)
Uh.

Yeah, you know, you'd think, I think I have a different strategy each race. Um, but I think in reality, when the gun goes off, I end up going out pretty hard. Um, like, I don't know, CCC, I set the fastest time of the first climb ever, which was probably not my best, my best choice. So this race to be like, yeah, I was going for it was like, maybe like, uh,

Maybe I was putting a label on the way that I usually end up racing, but yeah, I'd say like, I don't know, I do better if I just send it because I don't know, these ultras get really hard towards the end no matter how fast you're going. Like you could walk five hours and be like, this is the hardest thing I've ever done. Or you could like go as hard as you can for five hours and it's still the hardest thing you've ever done. You just, you know, you win instead of.

I don't know. I don't know what the alternative is, but, um, yeah, I was, I was definitely going for it. Definitely trying to, trying to go for the course record, which to be honest, I didn't, I wasn't, I, I thought I could do like, I was like, I didn't know what that would be like, like when Hayden ran five 18, like, I don't, I, it's hard to know. It's hard to know like what that's going to feel like until you give it a try. Um, it's a lot faster than I thought it was. Um, so I definitely tried to go for it, but, uh,

If I was being honest with myself before, I was pretty 50-50 on whether I could actually hold that pace.

Finn (03:20.706)
Well, now that we're two days post race, does Saturday's performance feel like a stepping stone towards that course record? Or do you feel like you've sort of brushed up against your limits? How are you currently processing it?

Seth Ruhling (03:31.805)
Uh, I mean, I definitely don't think I brushed up against my limits. Um, like, I think, I think like the, the way I ran it, like, could still be tailored. Like I still went out too hard per usual. Um, you know, I was like two and a half minutes faster off the AT than when Hayden ran it, you know, I think still two and a half faster minutes faster than like every.

other person who's kind of done the race and ran a fast time. So, you know, maybe I could hold back there. I don't know. I mean, I think I think I've gotten out of that race what I want to for now. I mean, it's two days after I don't feel like the deep desire to go back and try to go under 518. It's just hard. Like I don't because I've thought about it a little.

build time, where could I have like conserved? How could I have done things differently? And it's like, I just don't know. I just don't know like that pace on the tow path that you have to hold. Like I think I had to hold like 5.55 pace off the tow path, which like, this is like the most frustrating thing about that race is like objectively you're like that pace is not too fast. Like...

Finn (04:47.075)
Yeah.

Seth Ruhling (04:57.629)
And training do that pace like often or easily, or it's even like altitude adjusted, so it's like, that's like, I don't know, six Oh five pace or something. And then you get in the race and it's like, it feels good, feels good, feels good, feels good. And then like, all of a sudden you're like, I think I'm going a little slower and you look down as like seven 30 pace. Um, so it, it kind of creeps up, uh, like the fatigue kind of creeps up pretty fast at the very, so I don't. I don't know. I think I've kind of, I don't have a huge desire to go, to go back for the course record yet.

Um, but I also don't think I got like everything I could have gotten out of. I could get like, I don't think I've like reached my potential at that race, but. I don't know. I say that and then probably next month I'll be like, Oh, maybe I should go back to JFK. I don't know. It's hard to know.

Finn (05:46.655)
So you were two minutes up after the AT section. Do you know off the top of your head what Hayden did on that toe path section or where he ended up sort of making up time and sort of like a, a virtual race against you too?

Seth Ruhling (05:58.781)
Um, yeah, I mean, I was actually on course record, which is kind of embarrassing. I was on course record pace, like actually like a decent bit, a few minutes under, maybe four minutes under at mile 33. So I just died a lot, a lot harder than he did. I mean, everybody dies a little, like even Hayden like died, you know, like he like slowed down a little the last maybe 10 miles, but it was like, I slowed down.

by like a minute and he slowed down by like 20 seconds a mile, you know, and that, that over like 10, 10 miles kind of, uh, yeah, adds up or 17 miles for me adds up. Um, so I think that's where it was. I don't know if the top of my head, exactly what his splits were, but, uh, I mean, I ran the year that I won it in 2019. I, and I ran 10 minutes slower the last eight miles. I ran faster that year than I did this year.

Finn (06:32.238)
and I'll see you next time.

Finn (06:56.85)
Interesting. Okay. Um, I don't know if you saw this maybe a week ago, but at Tonnell Hill, Charlie Lawrence set the new 50 mile world record. I know that's a totally separate race, separate conditions, but in any way, shape or form did his performance there give you any courage or like just amplification heading in the JFK?

Seth Ruhling (07:04.318)
Yeah.

Seth Ruhling (07:17.697)
Um, I thought about it a little bit. Um, I mean, Charlie's like, he's so good. He's a such a good road runner. And I, I think like, you know, I think for me, like, I'm not as good of a road runner as he is, so it was, it was like a little bit like, well, his, I don't know what you're in, like five 47 pace is probably like my, you know, six.

Oh, seven pace, like effort wise. So it's like, I, I did think about that and I was like, well, if he can do that, like, maybe I can do this. Um, and then, and then I think that's where, like, I realized that. JFK, even though it's largely a road race is a totally different ball game than tunnel Hill, for instance. Like I, I mentioned this in one of the write-ups, how like people often think of JFK as just this like really fast race. And it is, you know, compared to like.

UTMB or any other trail race that exists. Um, but the reality is like that trail section is in and of itself, like pretty beefy. It's technical, it's hard, like it's hilly, it's undulating. You don't get that much vert, but you get this like, um, yeah, like, I don't know, unaccounted for vert. What we, we always call it is like where you're going up and down little hills, but your watch doesn't give you any more feet of vert. Um, so.

Yeah, I think that's where it's like, yeah, I don't, I mean, Charlie would still probably kick my butt at JFK, but, um, I think it's like thinking of him doing that at Tunnel Hill and the thing of what I can do. I'm like, I feel like it's just two totally different races, um, to, to compare. Um, but yeah, that was crazy. Um, what Charlie did.

Finn (09:03.207)
Yeah.

Finn (09:09.758)
I want to get more into like the race report in a second, but I'm reminded because when you said, you know, you were thinking big for this race, you were going to go for the course record. I was talking, I think it was either with Drew, maybe it was Adam Mary. It could have even been Matt Daniels, but we were sort of talking about sort of your, your Boulder boys contingent. And one of them was just kind of like giving sort of like a fly by description of what each of you guys brings to the table and it might've been Adam who was like with Seth, it's just all about fearlessness and confidence at every single start line.

Seth Ruhling (09:26.356)
Mm-hmm.

Seth Ruhling (09:37.249)
Yeah

Finn (09:39.234)
Was that an accurate description? Like if someone was to sort of point you out, those would be your traits and part of what makes you great in this sport.

Seth Ruhling (09:47.093)
I hope so. Yeah, I think so. I think, I guess like I never, and I think this maybe comes from the way you have to race triathlon a little bit from sort of my background. Like I think you have to go for it. Like you're, I don't know. Like I guess like I never got into the sport thinking like, oh, like I need to be 30 minutes back from, or like, you know, like 10 minutes back from the leader and maybe I'll win. It's like.

No, like I thought the point of this thing was to like try to go like try to go win the race, you know, um, so I think uh yeah, i'd like to think like That's kind of my mentality like every race is like Even if i'm like, oh, it's a long shot to like take the win. It's like well, I gotta go try like I don't know. I didn't I didn't fly all the way here and train all those miles to like shoot for fifth um or something um or Yeah, so it's um

But, you know, it doesn't always work out. Had my fair share of DNFs, uh, been sitting on the side of the trail a few times. So, uh, yeah, no, I think I'd like to think that's the way, you know, if Adam says it, that's, that's the way I am. And that's, that's probably true.

Finn (11:02.71)
I mean, I think that's a really interesting description when you think, like you said, in the trial world, there's maybe more risk and reward that's valued in ultra. There's more conservatism and running a quote unquote smart race. Have you explored that at all and figured out where the source of that comes from? Is it just people don't have necessarily experienced in like a fully developed or more fully developed sport like try or where does that other attitude come from? In your opinion.

Seth Ruhling (11:28.581)
Oh, I don't know. Yeah, that's hard to say because I don't want to say it's like I don't want to say it's like fear like for me. It would be fear like for me if I were to go out super conservative it'd be the fear of like bonking or like You know like failing or like being like, uh, you know, for instance like leading Ccc and then like getting just my doors blown off. I Junshin and john albin and everybody else in front of me. Um

you know, like that's, but, but to me it's like, you know, I'd rather like see what, see what like that looks like than like never know. Um, but to be said, that, that to be said, like there's people that go out conservative and like it pays off. I mean, it's probably half the, half the successful trail runners go out like really conservative and end up winning things or making names for themselves. I mean, yeah.

Finn (12:10.271)
Yeah.

Seth Ruhling (12:28.501)
So I, yeah, I'd say for me, like fear, maybe I think some of it also is like, yeah, like I think ultra there's this aspect of like, not only do you have to worry about your position, but you have to worry about like even just finishing the race, um, we're like triathlon or other, maybe a little, you know, more developed sports, there's an aspect of like, I'm competing against these guys, like these people you see in, you see it in marathoning all the time.

Like you see people, they go out at the pace. Like maybe it's too hot. Everybody knows it's too hot for, you know, whatever athlete it is. And like, they try to stick it in there and then maybe they drop out. But it's like, their whole goal is like, how can I just compete with the people I'm with rather than like, I gotta get to the finish line. Which, you know, little harder in trail running because the races are long and there is something more respectable about finishing.

Finn (13:27.371)
Yeah.

Seth Ruhling (13:27.385)
than maybe like marathoning or something else. But yeah, I really think I view the sport as a competition between people a little more than I feel it's a competition between the distance. And that has burned me at times. And I think also at times it's worked in my favor. So I don't know, I don't have a good answer. I think there's more than one way to do something, I guess.

Finn (13:37.029)
Mm.

Finn (13:42.146)
Mm.

Finn (13:50.331)
No, that's a great.

Finn (13:54.238)
I mean, and again, this is just as an, as an observer, maybe it's burned you, but it doesn't seem like it's traumatized you. Like it seems like with each race, you're able to go back out and maintain that same mentality as opposed to just like having taken so many arrows that you're a totally different runner and you're more conservative. So, so talk about that too. Like, how are you even, even in those races where, you know, you got to sit on the side of the trail and either walk in or call it a day, it doesn't seem like those like fundamentally change your strategy, which I think

Seth Ruhling (14:17.695)
Yeah.

Finn (14:24.114)
is not always the case with other runners.

Seth Ruhling (14:26.109)
Yeah, well like Finn have you ever golfed?

Finn (14:29.278)
Yeah, I'm a terrible golfer, but I try.

Seth Ruhling (14:30.537)
Yeah, okay. Right. So like, to me, it's like golf or maybe like gambling. Like, like, even if you're decently good at golf, I'm terrible at golf. If you're decently good at golf, you like, I don't know, shank it 10 times, but you nail it. You get that shot, hits the green. You're like two feet from the hole every once in a while. And you're like, all right, like I got to come back for that. And so I think for me, that's been the case with the way I've raced is like, like every

every once in a while, like, I mean, I might like sit on a rock or like DNF or like just get my doors blown off in the last few miles, but like every few races it works out and end up winning or setting a fast time or winning by a lot. And it's like just enough positive feedback that I'm like, okay, like I got to, this isn't terrible. Um, with that said, like getting, starting to get into sort of the bigger.

longer 10 hour or 10 plus hour races. Um, I probably do have to dial it a little bit, but, um, yeah, I don't know. I just enough, just enough positive reinforcement to keep me, keep me trying, trying to, to make mistakes, I guess.

Finn (15:45.45)
The golf analogy is really good. The one that just came to mind for me is baseball where the absolute best hitters in baseball are still making an out or striking out seven out of 10 times, like the very best hitters in Major League Baseball have a 300 average. So it's like, you know what I mean? Like in a sense, in a sense at every bat, they're effectively going forward as well. And, you know, of all the athletes out there, they deal with failure, even in game way more than they deal with success, which is interesting.

Seth Ruhling (15:59.867)
Yeah, yeah.

Seth Ruhling (16:13.805)
Yeah, yeah, no, totally. And I think that's, I don't know, maybe like part of what can make a really good athlete and, and I think part of what can make the sport very interesting is like having people give it their all. And sometimes it works. Sometimes you fail and it's like, you just got to keep, keep sending it. Keep trying.

Finn (16:35.15)
You know, you were saying earlier about JFK that there are parts of this race that might not that might confuse onlookers like, yeah, it's not UTMB, but there is like hidden vert and there are certain challenges and just ways you need to approach the race. What do you personally see as the crux of this course or the part of the course where just a lot is on the line and it's sort of going to make or break your day?

Seth Ruhling (17:00.461)
Oh man. I mean, so that that's like, there's two cruxes in it. My view on the race, there's two cruxes and it depends on what kind of runner you are. If you're used to smooth trail, not used to East coast running, maybe you're a road runner. We've seen guys like super fast marathoners try that course. Um, that trail section is, is brutal. Um, actually like this year I made my gap on the trail. I think I'm from the East coast. So I was kind of.

I find, I think I'm, I'd like to think I'm good at that kind of terrain. Um, and so I was able to make gaps on, not on the climbs, on the flats, but on the dissents of, of the, the AT. And I think that's a crux for maybe road runners. We've seen two, two 10 marathoners show up there and like come off the trail 20 minutes behind a trail runner. Um, but then I think for me, the crux and for, for probably a lot of trail runners that go into this is the crux is like.

running the same step for 38, no, 35 miles, the exact same step every time. It has to be fast, has to be quick. You're going for it. There was a point where I'm just like, I am running so hard. I'm just hoping to hold onto this and my calves are hurting. It's definitely a race where like, or at least for me, I don't bonk in the way that like, oh, I'm out of energy.

under fuel or something, I bonk like my legs are starting to tie up. Like it's like, it's like running like an 800 or like a mile and like your legs tie up the last hundred meters, but instead of a hundred meters, it's like your legs are in the process of tying up for like 10 miles. It's like the slowest death like ever. So yeah, I think that the crux of it is just like. Durability on the, for me, for a lot of trail runners, I imagine is like durability on the flats.

Like we just don't train and I don't think anybody trains like this, but maybe somebody does, somebody does. Um, nobody, nobody goes and runs three, four hours on flat roads every weekend. Um, you'd be running like 35, 40 mile long runs every weekend. Um, be kind of crazy. So it's, it's just hard. It's, it's, to me, it's just a race like.

Seth Ruhling (19:26.237)
It's a race that you can train for, but the race itself is something that no one no, like it's, it's very hard to train that stimulus. Um, I don't know. Yeah. It's, it's brutal. It's, it's, to me, it's way harder than like CCC or any other, actually I got done with this year and I was like, this is the hardest race and I forgot it was this hard, um, I don't know.

Finn (19:46.522)
Interesting.

Finn (19:54.622)
Well, what's your, what, what is your training? Like what are some of the, the focal points of your training playbook for this phrase, like when you're, when it's, you know, August or September, you know, you're rolling off CCC, what does like a given week look like for you? What are you, what are you making sure to do from like a specificity standpoint?

Seth Ruhling (20:11.561)
Yeah, I'm a pretty fragile, fragile human. My bones are made of porcelain. So I can't like, I can't do the training I maybe wish I could have, could, but yeah, to me it's just like the basics, like making sure you're doing long runs. And for me, I can't go do three hours on the flats every weekend, I'll get injured. So I do add trails, try to just get like,

time on feet on trails. But then just a lot of like, honestly, same stuff you go see like, maybe you would find like in the, I don't know, I actually do copy a lot of my training from the OAC group, the on athletic club. Just like, yeah, basic like, yeah, by proxy of Joe Clicker's Strava. I, yeah, just like, you know, just threshold work, right? Like, you know.

Finn (20:57.432)
Yeah.

So, Dathan's your coach. Ha.

Seth Ruhling (21:11.457)
four by two mile threshold, 10 mile threshold stuff, like just dealing in sort of like that as far as intensity, trying to get mileage and for me I'm pretty fragile, so I end up cycling more than I probably should for a race like that. But yeah, I just don't think, I think I've gotten to the point in my training where, and I hope this is true and I could be wrong because I could easily revert to like some immature.

things that I used to do, but like I've gotten to the point where it's like, it's better to be safe and just train the, you know, threshold, do the things you need to do to get fit and to show up to the start line and, and maybe, um, yeah, don't, don't try any like superhero workouts. Like, I don't think, like I ran well below like what I used to run in workouts for this race. And I think it actually benefited me. Like I felt really recovered and was able to do more volume at.

um, at certain intensities. Um, then, and like, historically I would have, cause I would have tried too hard to make the numbers look good or to boost my own confidence or something.

Finn (22:22.73)
You mentioned the OAC group, which is cool. Uh, shout out coffee club, by the way. But, um, are there, but like sort of more on sort of that inspirational front. Are there any people in, in the trail world or over in the road world that you try to emulate in your training at all besides OAC?

Seth Ruhling (22:26.751)
Yeah.

Seth Ruhling (22:40.389)
Oh, I mean, yeah, coffee club guys like, yeah, catch me listening to that, that podcast every Thursday. Um, I, I mean, to be honest, like there's it's just like, it's so easy here in Boulder to be inspired. Um, like, and for different reasons, like obviously like I'm inspired by OAC for the, like the running they do, you know, track fast running. I'm inspired like.

in the opposite sort of spectrum by like Jack Kunzel for like the crazy stuff he does. And like, just like, it's kind of like accomplishing the same thing, just like a different, like in a vertical plane instead of a horizontal plane. And then like, I don't know. Yeah, like, I find it so much inspiration from the boulder, you know, the boys I train with, Drew, Matt, Adam, like in different times, like those guys and obviously like Zach Miller, one of my teammates, good friend, like.

Finn (23:12.031)
Yeah.

Seth Ruhling (23:37.233)
I think he, he lately has really inspired me the way he raced UTMB and the way he talks about training. It's, it's really, uh, yeah, it's really inspiring. So I feel like it's interesting because I think when I was younger, I used to really look up to and, and aspire to be people that maybe I didn't know or never could meet. And then now it's like all my, like, you know,

biggest role models are like people that I see or meet or talk to on a regular basis. Which is, it's kind of nice. It's kind of nice actually.

Finn (24:17.142)
I want to come back to the training environment in a minute, especially the Boulder boys stuff, but a couple more questions about JFK. I think I heard you say earlier that you sort of put an initial gap on the rest of the field in the AT section. I'm guessing that was like Callum and Ryan, maybe Jared as well. Were you, were you running alone in isolation for the vast majority of this race? And if so, what was, what was that experience like?

Seth Ruhling (24:40.161)
Um, yeah, so actually I wasn't alone until the descent off the AT trail. Um, I actually was with guys. They were, they were kind of, I was either behind them for maybe the first eight miles and I was in front just cause I was taking the downhills maybe a little bit more recklessly. Um, or I felt I was in control, but it's kind of slippery, wet rock. Um, I, and so yeah, I, I.

built a bit of a gap. There's like a nice like thousand foot descent. I actually don't know how many feet it is. Some number in the thousands of feet descent down off the trail. And that's when I built a gap on Callum, did a little shoe swap and got stuck behind a train and then got on the towpath. And he was pretty close behind me. And I thought he was he was probably

right behind me for like, to like mile 25. I don't really know. There was a point at mile 30, I looked back and thought I saw somebody and in hindsight, I think it was like a tree or something. But I did not feel like I was running in isolation until I got off the, off the tow path and onto the road. That's when like, I realized when like Mike Spindler, the directory drove his car behind me.

and he wasn't giving me time gaps, which I feel like if he gave me time gaps, it would mean that I was closely followed. Yeah, that's when I actually felt like I was running alone. So to be honest, I was kind of running scared. There was a very good moment where I knew I was slowing down and I thought somebody was right behind me and I was just like, oh no. I don't know, it could have been Rajpal, I forgot his last name, he's from Denver.

He's super fast. Yeah, Havling 100K, got second at Tunnel Hill, I think 50. Super fast dude and I was like, I'm just done. Like he's gonna pass me. But I didn't realize I had a bigger gap. It's hard on that tow path. You think you can see for a long ways and you can, but what looks like a person is probably a tree.

Finn (26:33.876)
He ran the hobbling 100k.

Finn (26:59.014)
Do you like being chased or do you like being the one that is sort of in pursuit?

Seth Ruhling (27:05.039)
I don't like either. Oh man, I set myself up to be chased too much. I don't like that and I don't like being, I don't like chasing. I like running with people and knowing where everybody is. And so I think that's actually maybe a huge part to why my strategy is going out somewhat hard is like if you're in first, you know where everybody is.

Finn (27:06.742)
Ha!

Seth Ruhling (27:30.845)
If you let a gap go, you're like, I could pass somebody. Maybe I'm in 10th or fifth or third, or I don't know. So I, that's, that is the weird thing about trails. When I first got into it, it was like, you start racing. You're like, I don't, I don't know what's happening. Like, I don't know where anybody is. Like, unless you're getting time gaps and the time cups, like depending on the race come every three hours or something. Um, yeah, I don't like either. I would rather be out front. With a huge lead and.

and just jogging, you know. Both scare me quite a bit.

Finn (28:09.718)
Maybe a little bit of history here too, but like you won JFK back in 2019 and that seemed to be sort of your big splash debut on the competitive ultra scene. I think you had done some smaller stuff before that, but this was like the marquee one, what do you remember about that day? And, uh, I guess what it meant to you to kind of put you on this path.

Seth Ruhling (28:15.19)
Mm-hmm.

Seth Ruhling (28:30.365)
Um, it was huge. Like I think at the time I didn't realize like that, that race was that big of a deal. Like I knew it was a big race and new jam had gone and done it. Like I wasn't really in the trail running scene. Um, as far as like keeping up with who's who and who's won what race and like I knew who Jim was, I knew, you know, who Zach was and who Courtney was, but I literally probably about it, you know? And so when I won it, um,

in 2019, I just remember Mike Spindler like at the awards that night was like, this is going to change your life. Like you're going to have, you know, brands talking to you like, and I was like, okay, whatever. Like, like, if you know Mike Spindler, like he loves that race, like, you know, to him, it's like the, you know, it's like UTMB what like JFK is it, you know? And so talking to, you know, so he says that and I was like, whatever. And then like kind of that night, like

sure enough, like I was put in contact with the North face and it was like, Oh, like I had never really thought like, Oh, I could be a pro trail runner. Um, like that was never something even going to JFK. I was like, you know, I'm in nursing school. Like I'm just doing this cause triathlon was too much to train for. And then after that I was like, Oh, like this is, this is what I'm doing now. Like I'm doing trail running. Um,

So yeah, it's definitely, it's completely changed the trajectory of like what I'm doing. Like I, like I probably would be doing trail races had I not won that race. Um, but it'd probably be like an even mix of like trail racing and mountain biking and road, like crit racing and all kinds of random racing that I can think of doing. Cause I just like racing. Um, but yeah, now it's like, uh, it's kind of like kind of my job. So it's kind of fun.

Finn (30:07.021)
Yeah.

Seth Ruhling (30:27.021)
Uh, yeah, I, I could, I would have never guessed like I'd be doing this and getting paid to, to jog around mountains.

Finn (30:34.758)
So at the time it wasn't part of this master plan to sort of make this a professional thing. You just, it was picking out a local somewhat regional race and finding interest in it. And the cards kind of fallen into place.

Seth Ruhling (30:47.545)
Yeah. I mean, it was a backup. Like I had failed as, uh, you know, in my attempt to be a pro triathlete, I, you know, if you consider like me and being in college running track, like I'd failed as like a wanting to be a professional track runner. So it was kind of like, I'd failed at these other things. So it was kind of like, now I'm just like, I was kind of like, you know, okay, with the fact that I was just going to do just going to be like a working person and

doing sport because I love it. And then, yeah, and then I won. And then now here we are on a podcast.

Finn (31:25.783)
What does it mean to fail at sort of a pro triathlon career? Like is it taking X number of shots on goal and realizing I'm not going to get to where I want to be or yes, talk about that.

Seth Ruhling (31:36.425)
Yeah, yeah, pretty much. I mean, it was, um, yeah. So for me, it was like, I wanted to be a professional triathlete. I was training for it pretty hard. Triathlon is a little confusing. There's two sort of major types of racing, draft legal, which is in the Olympics, ITU triathlon, which is what I really wanted to do, but I wasn't good at swimming. So I kind of was like, okay, I'll do the long course stuff where the swim is

a smaller percentage of the distance. And yeah, it was, it's just like, yeah, I guess for me, failing was like, I finally achieved the goal of getting my pro license. So in triathlon, you have to get a license from your federation. It's kind of like a federation based sport. So you get from USA triathlon, like a card that says you're like a professional triathlete, and you can race in pro category races for prize money.

all this. And so I finally got that. And it just was like, once I got it, I was like, I'm just not gonna like I there is no way I mean, I was probably a little impatient, like, maybe if I had given it a couple years. I think, yeah, like, there's just no way I was gonna like be able to compete with the guys who were doing it full time.

as their career and who had a good swim background and maybe had actually gone through the junior system and built up through the system. So to me, failing was just like, yeah, I'm not gonna succeed here. So nor was I actually like really having fun with it anymore which is probably like a, it's stressful. Yeah, I mean, triathlons, I think fun, or for me it was fun in theory because it's like, I love cycling, I love running.

Finn (33:21.227)
How come?

Seth Ruhling (33:34.481)
Um, I didn't want to give either of those up, but I had to add this sport that I hated, which was swimming and everything about swimming. I didn't like, um, I was bad at it, which probably didn't help. Um, but it was just stressful. It was, it was like, you know, you go for a 20 mile run. It's like, you're kind of done for the day. Like unless you're like cam Levens or something and have two more runs in the day, like you're just done. And so for me, it was like, I'd go for.

a two hour bike ride or a three hour biker. And it's like, okay, like I probably have a swim and a run still, and I have to do my schoolwork and I have to go to the hospital to do clinicals or whatever. Cause I was in nursing school at the time. It's like, I just can't do, and I got to sleep and I got to eat still. Like, Oh, it was, it was too much. I just wasn't having fun. And actually like, I told my triathlon coach, I was like, I'm just not having fun. He was like, yeah, just go like do what you want. And I did, I signed up for a mountain bike race and a trail race.

Finn (34:18.796)
Yeah.

Seth Ruhling (34:33.529)
One was like mountain bike race was one weekend, trail race was the next weekend. And I went to the mountain bike race and I got like ninth and then I went to the trail race and I won and then I just kept doing trail races the rest of that year. And that, that was actually the, that was in may, um, before I won JFK in 2019.

Finn (34:49.636)
Okay.

Has trail running always been fun for you?

Seth Ruhling (34:56.733)
Yeah. I used to, um, in high school, we, I went to like a small private school, but it was located. We had like, we had 30 miles of trails just like right from the school. And so yeah, for cross country training, we just go run trails. And it was like, yeah, it was like play, right. Um, compared to like doing track workouts or jogging around grass fields. Um, yeah.

Finn (35:22.934)
I guess maybe one more question about JFK and then I want to sort of talk about the whole entire 2023 season at large. But, um, what was coming back this time around sort of like revisiting the beginning of your career? Was it purely about going for a course record? What was like the, the overall overarching motivation to come back?

Seth Ruhling (35:29.164)
Mm.

Seth Ruhling (35:43.281)
Yeah, well, yeah. So the overarching motivation was to come back was Adam and Matt were supposed to race. So it's probably a question for him, but I think he did the right thing. Like he needed more training. For him it was a good move. Job change, stuff like that. You know, he has a kid, like just needed. It would have been a forced, he would have had to push it and it wouldn't have been fun.

Finn (35:51.426)
Why didn't Adam race?

Finn (36:07.057)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Seth Ruhling (36:13.433)
Um, that's, that's why he didn't race. Um, but so yeah, that, that was kind of why I wanted to go. And then it wasn't until after I signed up that I was like, Oh yeah, like the course record, like this time, like I want to run fast. Um, I mean, shoot. Like I love JFK. That's one of the few trail races that gets mentioned on let's run.com. Like I'm all in for it, you know? Um,

Finn (36:36.166)
That's a great point about the let's run acknowledgement. That's awesome.

Seth Ruhling (36:39.257)
Yeah. So yeah, I think time was cool, but just going back and doing a race and like having done one, it was also a good measuring tool. Like I'd done it once before and not often. I actually don't think I've ever gone back to a trail race that I've won since being a pro. And, um, it was nice to have like, to see progress, like I ran faster than I did last time, like felt better. So it was good. Yeah.

Finn (37:07.534)
Part of me wonders how much faster you would have run if you had Matt and Adam in the race and just knowing what Adam is capable of in 2023, Matt just being this naturally talented runner. Would you guys have pulled each other even below 528 and would you have been inching closer to that course record?

Seth Ruhling (37:26.953)
I think so. I mean, you know, just standing behind or running behind Matt, having him block the wind for me would have been, would have been a few minutes. Yeah, you know, I, it would have pushed me for sure. Cause Adam last time I raced him, he rolled me up with a mile to go at Chuckanut. So I had a little bit of a, yeah, he would have been there. I would have had a chip on my shoulder not to let that happen again. But yeah, I think, I think we would have gone quite a bit faster.

I mean, I don't know about course record, but.

Finn (37:59.35)
Before we talk about 2023, I think we have to acknowledge one race from 2022 and that was the maxi race over in Europe and you won, but you beat Orleone in the process and I feel like we can talk about Orleone on a first name basis now because he's won hard rock, he's more in the American trail running consciousness, but he's one of the very, very best in the world. Um, talk about that day and, uh, and what it meant to, to beat one of the absolute greats in the sport.

Seth Ruhling (38:06.646)
Mm-hmm.

Seth Ruhling (38:15.696)
Yeah.

Finn (38:28.214)
Cause that's, I mean, I think most Americans will not appreciate that race and maybe not even appreciate who you beat, but like he's, he's kind of on the level of Killian and Francois and Jim. So, um, yeah, I just wanted to acknowledge that.

Seth Ruhling (38:41.341)
Yeah, so I didn't know that at the time, which worked. Um, it worked for my favor because I probably would have been a little more respectful in how I ran. Um, but, uh, yeah, no, I mean, it was cool. Like that was my first race in Europe. And I, I knew I could be really good at mountain races. Like I'm a smaller figure. Like I ride bikes a lot. I go uphill pretty well. I can go downhill fine.

So I was kind of like, I think this is like a style of race I can do. Um, and then I went over there and I just, I raced how like I always race. I went out really hard and I was trying to drag, I was trying to drag them along because I was like, maybe if I'm making a mistake, I can make them also be making a mistake. Um, and, and it ended up, ended up working out. Like I didn't, I didn't realize at the time how good Aurelian was.

Like I knew he was the favorite. I knew he was from Annecy, France, which is where the race was. And I think it was that sort of. Naivety that like helped me like just race my, like how I wanted to race irrespective of like who was in the, in the race and yeah, it worked out really well.

Yeah, that was the first time I really felt like I could compete on an international level. It's always hard. Like being in the US, we have so many fast guys, but you never know. Like you also, like you also hear like France has a lot of fast guys. Like Spain has a lot of fast guys. Like it's just different over there. And I mean, yeah, like I still think that like competition wise notoriety wise, like that race is still like, I mean, probably will be for a minute. The, the

Finn (40:13.387)
Yeah.

Seth Ruhling (40:38.485)
biggest win of my career. I think I got like 800 French followers on Instagram after that, which is a lot. I don't get a lot of followers very quickly. So I was like, dang, like kind of popular in France. But yeah, it was fun. Like I, you know, and then he came in one Hard Rock and I was like, let's go. Like, oh.

Finn (40:45.722)
That is a lot.

Finn (40:52.718)
I'm sorry.

Finn (41:02.45)
He looked so good in the pro. I mean, I was there on the ground. It was incredible how good he looked.

Seth Ruhling (41:06.461)
Yeah, I saw some videos and I was like, this guy is like, he's on another level here. Yeah, super, super props to him. I wish I didn't talk to him much. I'd love to chat with him sometime because I'm sure he's like a really cool person. I just didn't know who he was at the time. Like classic American, don't know anybody else but Americans.

Finn (41:27.982)
I'm trying to think about the context of that race. And again, prior to 2023, 2023 being a year where you've put a lot of impressive results up on the board, was this an important race for you from a, from a confidence building standpoint, you know, considering also the 2019 JFK COVID happening in 2020, um, I can't exactly remember how your season transpired in 2021, but of course that race happening in 22. So how important was that in sort of your narrative arc as an athlete?

Seth Ruhling (41:41.111)
Mm-hmm.

Seth Ruhling (41:54.369)
Oh, it was huge. It was huge. I got done with Maxi and I was like, like I was literally like, I could go in CCC. Like I could, I can win anything, you know? Um, yeah, yeah. Like, like it wasn't like, it wasn't like I was like confident in the way where I was like, I am going to go like no one can beat me, but it was like, oh, like I did that, which means like I have this potential to do really well in mountain races and like,

Finn (42:04.815)
And you could.

Seth Ruhling (42:23.013)
One thing I have always known of, even before I was into show running, was the loop around Chamonix or around Mont Blanc. So I was kind of like, yeah, maybe someday I can actually put a low score there and do well.

Finn (42:45.826)
Fast forwarding to 2023, one, I mean, obviously you've had a great year. I'm looking at some of those results here. Second at Chuck and a seventh in a highly, highly competitive CCC. It was cool to see that sort of American contingent in that six, sorry, six. Oh my gosh. Forgive me. Well, we'll have the AI fix it or something. Um, and then the, the win at JFK, but.

Seth Ruhling (42:58.981)
Yeah, I think I got six. I think I got six. Yeah, no, you're good. I don't want to be nitpicky, but

Finn (43:10.994)
I think one thing that made this year interesting is you had this heart condition in the spring and just based on Instagram, it looked like it could have been career jeopardizing. So talk about what that was and what happened and I probably have some follow up questions off that.

Seth Ruhling (43:26.513)
Yeah, yeah. So I'd actually like, I'd gotten selected to race worlds. And so I'd been, you know, I've just gotten my kit like, I don't know, a week before my heart event. I actually was about to fly out like five days after. And yeah, I woke up in the middle of the night. It was actually kind of funny. It's very, very runner story. I woke up in the middle of the night. And I felt like I was

Seth Ruhling (43:56.161)
burning and I was like, oh, like I must like need to roll my back out. So I got on a foam roller and like rolled my back out and then it was like, well, just in case it's a heart attack, I'll take an aspirin. Um, and so, so I woke up and it was like, well, clearly, you know, in hindsight, you're like, oh, you had a heart condition. You tried to roll foam, roll it out. Um, but I, yeah, just like had pressure on my chest and.

Thankfully I work at a hospital and talked to one of the doctors once I got there. And he submitted the ER. Yeah, pretty terrifying, like a couple hours. The EKG, they hooked me up to the EKG and it read that I was having a heart attack. So immediately, I wasn't even worried about my running career. I was just worried about staying alive. And yeah, and then-

Finn (44:47.323)
I think.

Seth Ruhling (44:51.117)
There was also some other diagnoses that were on the table that I definitely would just be dead right now. But thankfully, you know, came back all right and just ended up being diagnosed with pericarditis, which is like the inflammation of the outermost layer of the heart. And it's not too terribly uncommon, but it's, yeah, it's terrifying.

Finn (44:57.62)
Thanks.

Seth Ruhling (45:20.237)
So yeah, that put me out for, well, I was supposed to, so I went to one cardiologist and he didn't want me to run for three months, which would have put me at August 30 for my first run, which would have been the day before CCC. I didn't really think that was a good answer. So I consulted the internet and yeah, ended up talking to some other doctors after finding some good research.

And yeah, only had to take two weeks completely off like any cardio. And then another two weeks of just keeping my heart rate below 130. And then, yeah, then it was back. Back to pretty normal training. I will say like one thing, I've actually had a lot of questions from people who have gotten pericarditis. It's been a little more popular. You can get pericarditis after a virus. So.

Finn (46:12.458)
Yeah.

Seth Ruhling (46:19.661)
There's a lot of theories or maybe they're not theories anymore that COVID or you can get it after any vaccine, COVID or vaccine, um, can call it. It's just a misplaced immune response is how I think that's the common, that's freak event. Yeah. That's my understanding. That's, that could be a little vague. I'm sure there's more detail, but, um, so I've had a lot of people asking about it and, um, it's been kind of interesting to like be able to connect with people who are also scared about what.

Finn (46:26.884)
Mm.

Finn (46:33.806)
It's like a freak event.

Seth Ruhling (46:49.237)
the future holds because there is there is was potential that I had also inflammation in the muscle of the heart which would have yeah probably been the end of my professional career but yeah didn't happen but yeah I will say like probably something that I wish and if anybody listening has ever had pericarditis and like I wish was a little bit

More out there is the anxiety that comes along with it. Like after it was a month after I was training again, I kept having shortness of breath, like I could, I had to stop a few runs. I was running with Zach one time. I was like, dude, I have to turn around. Like I can't breathe. Um, and then I think the reality of that was it was just anxiety. Like just, I was having little panic attacks every, that would last like days.

Finn (47:27.243)
Yeah.

Finn (47:31.979)
Mm.

Seth Ruhling (47:46.373)
every few weeks just because I think after you have a heart event you don't really trust your body anymore. So actually I had those up until CCC and once I finished CCC I haven't had a problem. So I... It's hard, like anxiety is weird. I would have told everybody, oh I'm not worried about it, I'm not worried about it, but I was terrified that I would keel over in Europe somewhere. So yeah.

everybody's, everybody's different with pericarditis, but it in athletes, it, it has become a little more prominent since COVID. And I think if there's anybody listening that has had pericarditis, like it's terrifying and it's okay that it's terrifying. Like, I don't know. Like.

Finn (48:33.642)
Well, we're talking about the engine of every single runner's body, right? Like it's perfectly natural to, especially after that event, to question everything and to lose faith or lose trust. And every single time you're remotely pushing your body, you think, are things going to shut down? Is there going to be a recurrence? All that kind of stuff.

Seth Ruhling (48:50.617)
Yeah, yeah, totally. And I mean, to be honest, I'm still at like everybody who has it, we're 33% chance we're going to get it again. So at any moment, like, but I won't be as scared this time. At least I'll be like, pretty sure it's not a heart attack this time. Um, yeah.

Finn (49:07.998)
I find it fascinating because I have a couple people in my family, it's genetic, but, uh, Afib, atrial fibrillation, like despite being a perfectly healthy human being otherwise and being runners and skiers, et cetera, like they have Afib and they're in their twenties and they're teens and it's like, and so they, they live with sort of like that sort of doomsday potential thing lurking around every corner, which is crazy.

Seth Ruhling (49:12.749)
Mm, yeah, yeah.

Seth Ruhling (49:26.857)
Yeah, it's gotta be terrifying. Yeah, you just never, like, AFib to me is even probably like more scary. It's like, you never know. You know, you could be having the time of your life and you're like, ah, I got AFib. I have to go lay down for the rest of the day or the week, you know? It's, ah, like, yeah, you'll, you know. Kudos to everybody who gets through that because that's tough.

Finn (49:44.571)
Thank you.

Finn (49:52.93)
But you were able to have this event and then three or four months later, finished six that CCC. Again, that to me is like a Testament of, uh, I don't know. Maybe you don't have as much like that, like amygdala fear based response in running. Right. Is it just, is it like an Alex Honnell type thing where you don't experience fear like the rest of us do?

Seth Ruhling (50:06.549)
Yeah

Seth Ruhling (50:12.213)
Uh, I wish. Uh, no, I, yeah, I think I did have good training. Um, but I do think for, for the six or seven weeks. Um, but yeah, I think that just is kind of comes back to like the way I race is like, even though I had those events, I still was like, I'm going to give myself the best chance to, to go for the win at CCC. I, I told my.

I told, I can't remember if it was Zach or Matt or who I was talking to the day before, I was like, I could go out there and be conservative and get top 10 at CCC, or I could go try to win the thing and probably still get top 10. And I'd be satisfied with the latter option of giving it a try and, you know, so I, yeah, I'd rather risk it, you know, so it's more fun.

Finn (51:10.326)
We, I was talking about this with Brett Hornig, we had like a long run archives episode, maybe a month ago. And I was mentioning that, you know, back when worlds happened in Innsbruck, we sort of gave a lot of recognition to Eric La Puma and Zach Miller and, you know, those, those three guys finishing and sort of in the middle of the pack, four, five, six at worlds and, uh, sort of what that meant, but I think that the American representation on the men's side at CCC this year was, was just as impressive. And.

Seth Ruhling (51:25.889)
Mm-hmm.

Finn (51:37.814)
Did you sort of feel that mid event or were you kind of in your own orbit, um, running your own race?

Seth Ruhling (51:43.133)
No, I was very aware of it. Yeah, no, I think now I'm just a fan of the sport. And so I was very aware of what that was gonna mean. Having four guys in the top six. Like I, I mean, yeah, like I would have loved to be third. Like I would have loved to be the first of the four guys. But when I knew that, you know, I didn't know where Dakota was once I drew and.

Um, John passed me. Um, but yeah, I knew I was like, if we hold onto this, like this is crazy. And actually like somebody after the race, Cameron, who it was all days, some French, somebody from France that has, you know, part of the race was like, we've been waiting for you Americans to finally show up and do this. And I was like, dang, you're not wrong, but yeah, it felt good. It was, it was cool. And I think.

Finn (52:14.283)
Yeah.

Finn (52:32.024)
Ha ha!

Seth Ruhling (52:40.625)
only gonna get better. Like, you know, I know three of the four, you know, John drew me from CCC. Like, I know what we're all doing in training and we're all just like so early on and like I think what all of us can do in the sport. So, yeah, I think the US like internationally is gonna, I mean, we're already there. I think it's just gonna get even deeper until...

Somebody stops us, to be honest.

Finn (53:12.606)
How much more runway do you think you have? You said you feel like you're still early in your process and there's still many years. How long do you think that runway is and how far away from your potential do you think you are, if you had to guess?

Seth Ruhling (53:23.853)
Um, I don't know. It's hard. Like I've never ran a hundred miles. Um, so I feel like I have that step to go, um, for me personally. Like, but I think I'd like to think I have a lot of potential and still, um, whether that's true or not, it doesn't really matter. Like, I'm still going to go out every day, train, like I have that potential and race, like I have that potential. And if it works out, you know,

freaking amazing. If it doesn't, I had a lot of fun. So yeah, I, you know, I'd like to think I could win big international races at some point. If I don't, I'm still gonna go try. I don't know. It's fun. Yeah, I, I don't know. I'd like to think I have a big, you know, quite a ways to go.

Finn (54:13.838)
This is kind of a weird question, but I'm just like looking at CCC, looking at UTMB, looking at Western this year, and I'm sort of like imagining what the very cream of the crop is, at least on the men's side on the American scene, you know, from Western, Anthony, Tyler, yourself, Drew, Dakota, John Ray at CCC, Jim and Zach at UTMB. Do you feel at this point in time, like you sort of belong in that cohort of like the very A tier on the American scene? And I guess.

Seth Ruhling (54:23.532)
Mm-hmm.

Finn (54:43.526)
what extent are you thinking about that and aware of sort of like your standing on that like totem pole of top athletes?

Seth Ruhling (54:51.557)
Yeah, I mean, I probably think about it more than I should. Yeah, like, I'm not yeah, I'm not gonna say like, I don't, I don't think about that, actually. I think about that a lot. Like, like I said, I think earlier, like, I go to races and think of them as competitions between people. And so I'm also aware of like, maybe where I would stack up against the Americans right now. And to be fair, like, I think I think the American contingent, like, you know, you could maybe say Jim is

a step above or Zack is a step above, but I think there's a huge, all those names you listed it's like, and I think it's the way the sport should be and the way it'll be interesting is like on any given day, each one of us can beat the rest. Like on any given day, like Drew can crush me and then, you know, two months later I'll have him, you know, it's like, it just is like, and we talked about it a lot, me and Drew and

Finn (55:39.04)
Yeah.

Seth Ruhling (55:52.393)
you know, or like on any given day, it's like, one of us can win or beat the other. It's just like, who has the day or maybe who had the better bill. They're like, what's going on like in, you know, in life. So, which I think is like what the sport needs like to be interesting. It's like, I don't, I don't ever want to see the sport get to like, maybe where it has been in the past where it's like, there's three people show up and you know, that's going to be the podium. Like now I think like if.

Finn (56:09.771)
Mm.

Finn (56:19.519)
Yeah.

Seth Ruhling (56:22.037)
All the best Americans were, if there was like a national championship right now, like, which would be sweet. Like if there was like a national trail championship and all the American men showed up, like it would be, it would be a really good race. And I think on any given day, like I could win or Drew could win or John could win or Dakota could, like, it's just like, I would hate to bet on it, you know, you probably like, you could bet on it and you'd probably lose like some, you know,

It's up in the air, I think.

Finn (56:54.334)
Based on how things have gone the last four years and the point that you've gotten to in your experience, like kind of forecasting the next few years, how invested are you going to need to be from like a training standpoint, but also an overall lifestyle standpoint, either to sort of maintain where you're at, or to get even better.

Seth Ruhling (57:15.555)
Oh, I mean, I think...

Yeah, this is a yeah, I think that to be at the top of any sport, any global sport, including trail running, you have to be, it's got to be like a lifestyle. Like I think it has to be, it maybe doesn't have to be, but it's optimized if it is like your full, like what you do, you know, every day for a living.

Um, I think that, um, yeah, like if I were to want to go in UTMB in the next three years, like maybe I could do that while having a full-time job and the same commitment level I am now. But I, I do think it is incredibly difficult.

Not impossible, not impossible. Incredibly difficult to not be fully committed in living a professional athlete lifestyle and beat guys who are able to do that. Um, and that, and that, and that's just where the sport is right now. Like the sport right now is you have a few people who their job is entirely trail running. That's what they do. They, they take nap. I don't know if they do, but they, they have the ability to take naps every day. They can go get massages and treatment. And then you have like,

maybe the working class that's actually like really close behind them of people who have full-time jobs and don't nap. But yeah, really blue collar over here.

Finn (58:51.34)
I like that designation, the working class.

Finn (58:59.874)
Um, you know, you were saying after 2019 JFK, like literally that night, you know, you got a call from whatever North face headquarters and things did change a fair bit. I felt like this year you put out a lot of great output, um, at some pretty like national class in world-class races. Are things changing again? Like, are you, are you feeling like around you there's more interest or more investment or

Seth Ruhling (59:09.682)
Yeah.

Finn (59:27.966)
Are you kind of like satisfying what you were expected to do? I don't know where I'm going with this, but.

Seth Ruhling (59:33.089)
Yeah, yeah, I don't know. Yeah, I can't probably can't speak to too much of what's going on, on air, because, but I do think that, yeah, I feel like I feel like I have had like a good maybe year for if I were working in marketing for a brand like my year was acceptable, I think.

as far as output and results and maybe content that was created. Um, but yeah, I think, I think JFK, the short answers, I think JFK really, um, helped me out a lot. Um, yeah, I'm actually supposed to talk with my agent after this, so I don't know. Uh, but, uh, yeah, I'm still working things out. Um, but yeah, I mean, to be fair, like I'm.

Finn (01:00:22.562)
Right on.

Seth Ruhling (01:00:29.857)
super grateful for and happy with my current setup.

Finn (01:00:33.737)
Yeah.

Finn (01:00:38.666)
Maybe last topic for you here. What's next for you? Like you said, maybe in the next three years, you could win UTMB. Have you ever taken any runs at Western States before, like golden ticket attempts, stuff like that?

Seth Ruhling (01:00:50.453)
No, no, I've done golden ticket race, black Kana twice. And neither time I was planning to take a golden ticket. I just wanted to race a competitive race. I wouldn't have gotten a golden ticket anyway, dropped out. And then I think I got six the next time. I've never taken a run at Western States. To be honest, that race scares me a lot. It's everything that I'm bad at. It's hot, it's sunny, it's...

Um, uh, like a lot of, which I'm decent at running, but it's a lot of running. Um, yeah, it's, uh, it's heat management. It's on top of the little things, which historically I'm not very good at. The little things in races. Um, I'd rather grab a handful of chips and keep running. Um, so that really scares me a lot. I would like to give it a go.

Uh, it's hard. It's hard. And, and to be honest, the thing that about Western States that has kept me from. Maybe putting it forefront is the time of year. It's too like it's in June. It kind of like, I, I love training in July here in Colorado. A pie is perfect. Cycling's good in July. Like everything's good in July and August. And I've witnessed people, you know, Drew or Adam who, uh, go do Western States. They're pretty.

Finn (01:01:55.883)
Yeah.

Seth Ruhling (01:02:17.089)
for July and August, which is a little, I don't know. I don't know, we'll see, I do want to give a run at Western States and I'm not saying it's not gonna be anytime soon, but I don't know. I think right now the only race I'm signed up for next year is Trans Grand Canaria. It's a North Face race and it's, actually, I'm gonna sell this race to anybody who, I've never done it, it's probably wonderful. It's probably hard to get to, it's on an island somewhere. But.

Finn (01:02:33.247)
Nice.

Finn (01:02:38.87)
Please, please.

Seth Ruhling (01:02:45.641)
It's the only race you can do that's in between a hundred like almost exactly in between CCC and UTMB as far as like length and vert. So it's like, you don't have to make the jump from a hundred K to a hundred mile. You can do a 120 K and see if you're any good at it. So that's where that's, that's like, I'm excited because it will be the furthest of Brandon and off to commit to a hundred miles.

Finn (01:03:08.942)
And I think that it's part of the, is it part of the new world trail major circuit too? Okay.

Seth Ruhling (01:03:13.245)
Yeah, I think so. I think so, which is, I'm still not 100% sure how all that works, but I think that's pretty cool.

Finn (01:03:24.162)
How about Chamonix? Will you be in Chamonix next August, do you think? Okay.

Seth Ruhling (01:03:27.169)
For sure. Yeah. I, yeah. As much as, you know, UTMB as a brand is irritated people, I think the loop around Montblanc or the half loop around Montblanc is so compelling. Um, yeah. So I'll be there.

Finn (01:03:41.812)
Yeah.

it on, on that note, it's so funny. I, so I've, I've obviously been following avidly sort of the world, what whirlwind around Whistler and UTMB and all this stuff. And I went on a run earlier this morning with a couple of people who their ultra signup lists are like 10 or 15 years long. They're avid participants in the sport, but I started to get into that conversation and there are three questions back where who is Gary Robbins?

Seth Ruhling (01:04:04.407)
Mm-hmm.

Finn (01:04:13.062)
What is UTMB? And since when has Iron Man gotten involved in trail? And I just and then you realize that like I live in a bubble inside a bubble inside a bubble and 99% of the world has no idea what's going on there.

Seth Ruhling (01:04:14.049)
Ha!

Seth Ruhling (01:04:17.971)
Ugh.

Seth Ruhling (01:04:25.117)
Yeah. So no, totally. It's like the world majors. I'm like, like great idea. I don't, you know, somebody explain it to me if I'm getting this all wrong, but does anybody besides the pros care that it's a world made, like is 90, like 98% of the people signing up for the race are probably still going to go because it's at a cool location or like, you know, they've heard of it. I don't know if like, yeah. So it's, um, yeah, we're definitely in a bubble. Like.

Shoot, I'll go to work. If I work with somebody new, I don't even begin to try to explain what I do to people. I don't know. I was telling my wife the other day, it's like I either undersell what I do by being like, oh yeah, I just jog for a long time, or it sounds like I'm overselling it by being like, yeah, I won this race. So it's so hard to explain the sport sometimes to people. You have to show them, I think.

think, which is like why I think the coverage of UTMB is so important as I think it shows people what it's all about instead of just kind of explaining something that seems hard to grasp.

Finn (01:05:38.346)
Well, Seth, it's been an absolute pleasure to have you on the show. Huge congrats on the JFK win. Obviously excited to watch 2024 sort of evolve for you. And yeah, thanks for going in depth on everything and just being a great guest. We really appreciate it.

Seth Ruhling (01:05:52.725)
Yeah, no, thank you so much and thanks for everything you guys do for the sport. It's nice having like somebody inside the, the pro scene of the sport doing podcasts and stuff, cause it's like, I feel, I feel hurt like collectively. I think this is how us Boulder boys talk about it. Like we feel heard and seen as like a pro group. So, uh, no, thank you so much.