Rachel Drake | 2024 Black Canyon 100K Pre-Race Interview

Finn (00:01.206)
Rachel Drake, it is great to have you on the Single Track Podcast. How are you doing today?

Rachel Drake (00:05.715)
I'm doing great, I'm excited to be here.

Finn (00:08.158)
It's great to have you here and there is a lot to talk about with regard to the black Canyon a hundred K and I, but I also have an assortment of questions sort of about like your last few months of training and racing and overall outlook on the sport. I think the first thing I'm interested to learn more about is the way you characterized CIM, like you kind of framed it less as a means of getting to the Olympic trials and more as this quote unquote vehicle for trail speed. So

talk about that some more. Was that always your intention from the outset to use CIM as this means to maybe be at your best for races like Black Canyon?

Rachel Drake (00:46.583)
Yeah, yeah, there's a couple things at play there. I did my first road marathon in 2019. I did grandma's marathon in June and then ran CCC two months later. And I felt like the fitness, surprisingly, the fitness from that road marathon really translated well into CCC. And after having a baby and doing a couple speedier European races, I was just craving the speed that a road

marathon training block gave me. So I was looking forward to Black Canyons and I was thinking, okay, I think a road marathon block would actually work a lot better for Black Canyons than it did for CCC. And I thought it worked pretty well for CCC. So that was kinda what I was thinking with that.

Finn (01:37.826)
Where did you, going back to CCC with that grandma's marathon, where did you ultimately notice the, the breakthroughs or the differences in your training for that race?

Rachel Drake (01:47.511)
in the CCC training or in the building.

Finn (01:49.958)
Yeah, yeah, as a function of grandmas, yeah.

Rachel Drake (01:52.963)
Yeah, I think it came from a combination of just like, just general cardiovascular fitness, but then also sort of the mental freshness of coming off a road marathon where

you're focused on following the person in front of you and just running fast and you're not thinking about vert or getting trail fit. It just felt like, okay, you have all this fitness, but then you're completely, at least for me, I was mentally fresh for the trails because it just feels like a different sport. So I feel like it was, yeah, a combination of just the raw fitness and also the mental.

the mental side of things, feeling fresh.

Finn (02:37.226)
On the physical side too, do you feel like you were able to withstand the demands of like running on the roads pretty frequently? And then of course, like throwing down a pretty awesome effort on race day itself, like to feel like you physically bounced back pretty well.

Rachel Drake (02:51.119)
Yeah, I think so. I mean, I have a great, a great network of people helping me out. I've been training with the Bowerman elite team. And so just there's a great, you know, library of athletes in that, in that team that I can train with and that I can bounce ideas off of. And then, you know, having a physical therapist and all that, all those kinds of things, I think.

keep me pretty healthy and then also I'm doing pretty low mileage as well and I think that that's keeping me feeling fresh also.

Finn (03:29.702)
In your CIM recap on Instagram, one thing that stuck out to me, you talked about this concept of co-regulation with competitors and that there's nothing more comforting and powerful than, I think it was, you said like collaborating with your fellow competitors. So for people that miss that post, I found that to be really interesting. Talk about what that looked like practically on race day and why you feel strongly about using it just like generally as part of like a race day strategy.

Rachel Drake (03:45.415)
Heck yeah.

Rachel Drake (03:57.347)
Yeah, I think, I mean, I've felt this a few times and really anytime I've had a race that I'm especially proud of, there's always some magic moment with a woman that I'm technically racing against, we're trying to beat each other, but there's just like this mutual respect where you're synced up and you're holding each other accountable and you're rooting for the other person because you want them to be at their best because that forces you to be at your best. And if they're...

not fit or having a bad day and you beat them, that's not going to be very satisfying and it won't draw out the best in you. So I think it's a better way, at least for me, to frame competition is I'm bringing my A game out of respect for my competitors and I hope that they will do the same. And on race day, I want to collaborate with them to just get the best out of each other and out of ourselves. And then

Honestly, who cares about the results? Like if we all do the best that we possibly can, that's the most satisfying thing ever.

Finn (05:05.11)
Practically, does it look like mid-race pep talk or grabbing a water cup off an aid station table for the person you're running with? Or what did that look like for you at CIM?

Rachel Drake (05:15.739)
Yeah, there was a lot of that. I think that was a little bit more natural because a lot of people were trying to hit the qualifier. And so, you know, we're trying to pull each other along and I made it my goal very early in the race. Like I will not say no to anyone who's offering me a swig of their drink. And so I drank from like 10 different people's water bottles because people would...

get their bottle from the aid station and then it would just be passed around a pack of women. So I think that was, yeah, that was a practical component of it. And then I was running, I was running over half of the race with Peyton Thomas, another trail runner, and we were, you know, exchanging, you know, words of encouragement and there was even just a...

a few hints of like, okay, we go through a jostling aid station. And there was a moment where whoever was slightly ahead would almost check back and be like, Hey, are you coming with me? Like we're, we're much stronger together than we are apart. So let's just keep pushing together for as long as we can. And, you know, we didn't necessarily say that, but it felt unspoken that we would work together as long as we can and then sort out, you know, who between us was going to end up in front, but.

That was really fun.

Finn (06:38.046)
It's so interesting. And maybe this is sort of like a stereotype I had that you dispil, but I've always thought of the marathon scene as more of cut, like a cut throw type thing and it's, it's hard to make passes and whatnot, whereas like what you're describing is more of this like trail culture type thing where even though you're competitors, you're sort of in it together, uh, you know, survival is key in addition to just having like the best possible day. So it's cool to see that like even in the marathon scene, this, this sort of environment transfers.

Rachel Drake (07:07.651)
Yeah, I didn't feel that at all. I've only done three marathons, but I didn't feel that when I did grandmas. Like, I think this was more of a artifact of, okay, this is the last opportunity to qualify for the trials. We all have that time goal. Whereas when I ran grandmas, it was a little bit more.

I was trying to chat with people while we were running, because it's a long race, and nobody was really wanting to chat. So I think there is still quite a difference between the road scene and the trail scene, but it was really nice to have that connection at CIM.

Finn (07:44.662)
Maybe one last thing on CIM. I'm not familiar with exactly how it works, but in your case, you got this qualifying time just before the 2024 trials. Does that mean that this whole process has to reset? And like, if you wanted to go for it and say, 2028, you kind of have to replicate what you just did.

Rachel Drake (08:01.431)
Yeah, exactly. I think they'll announce probably a year or two after the Olympics what the new standard is and what the time frame is for qualifying. So the time frame for this one, it might have opened like while I was pregnant or just before I got pregnant. So yeah, I would have to go for it again.

Finn (08:26.67)
of more things before we get into Black Canyon. There was another quote I came across on your IG and it was maybe before or after Kodiak back in the fall. And you say quote, in our burgeoning sport, it feels like more and more frequently athletes are put in positions to make decisions that sort of contradict the reasons we pursue the sport. Initially, it's sort of like this double edged sword. You're riding this thin edge between too much racing, traveling, training, and then missing out on your dreams. And

Rachel Drake (08:46.841)
Mm-hmm. Yep.

Rachel Drake (08:53.696)
Mm-hmm.

Finn (08:54.378)
A great quote. And I guess the question I have here, especially since we're at the beginning of a new year is what has ultimately worked for you in terms of how you decide between all these competing interests and how you optimize your race calendar.

Rachel Drake (09:10.307)
Yeah, I mean that the whole post is exactly it's exactly what you're saying right now. It's like it's sort of impossible nowadays to do that when

You know, you have to qualify for a race by doing a race that you don't really want to do. And you're in the middle of a training block for something else. Like to, to sort of read between the lines with that post, I was in the thick of training for CIM, which was a big dream of mine to, to just get the OTQ, even though I didn't want to run at the trials.

but then also being forced to do a race to qualify for UTMB, you know? And in the same breath, I say, I expect my competitors to bring their A game when I race. And here I am sort of half-heartedly doing this 50K just to get a qualifier for UTMB. I mean, I'm guilty of not knowing, I guess, not always doing what I...

It's not sticking true to my, I don't know, I feel conflicted, I guess. I'm sort of at a loss for words because I don't want to have to do that. But at the same time, I like the UTMB races and I don't want to be stuck in a position where I can't do those races. But at the same time, I want to stick to my beliefs and do the races that are best for me.

there's no good answer. But I guess getting back to your question, how do I make a calendar? I think if I can accomplish the task of doing a race but not having it be an A race, for example, Kodiak or like this 33k I just did in Hong Kong, that wasn't my A race. Black Canyons is my A race. But I can still get a good long run in. I can still put a hard effort in and have it be

Rachel Drake (11:15.255)
a useful, a useful component of a training block for something bigger.

Finn (11:21.346)
It's interesting, and this is totally coincidental, but I was on a run yesterday with a mutual friend, Leah Yingling, and we were talking exactly about this topic. And because she has Western States and UTMB on her schedule next year. No, maybe it's run rabbit in Western States, but we were sort of talking about this exact dilemma. And it's like, I think one of the ways she framed it was you can sort of compartmentalize your career. And like she is in the season of, you know, working through all of these qualifying systems to get to these, you know.

Rachel Drake (11:27.368)
Love her. Okay.

Rachel Drake (11:37.028)
Yeah, that sounds right.

Finn (11:49.87)
hyper professional races, but then there's probably going to be a season not too far away from now where, you know, because we're based in Salt Lake City, her priorities are like the Wasatch 100, the Bear 100, High Lonesome, a lot of these cool, like more local races where, you know, equally compelling, but just like easier to, to schedule around. And I don't know if you feel the same way, but that was, that was kind of a liberating answer as I was like thinking about all this.

Rachel Drake (11:59.922)
Mm-hmm.

Rachel Drake (12:15.831)
I love that. I think that's a great way also to stay fresh as an athlete, to not do the same exact races year after year just because they're the most prestigious ones, but to sort of have a year where you're...

you're deciding to stay close to home, whether that's just staying in the United States, or you say, I'm just gonna race in my geographic region. I think Chrissy Mayle did that a few years back where she's traveled the world and she said, I'm just gonna do all these races local to me in Washington. So I love that and I hope more people do that too. I would like to do that.

Finn (12:44.171)
Yes.

Finn (12:58.414)
Before we get into Black Canyon, I got to ask you about one more thing. Um, and it's the Hong Kong trail scene. The, the hundred K racer that Tyler just did sort of came back on my radar after the world trail majors were announced. And I felt like you guys did a great job of documenting the sites and the scenes on social. What, um, what stood out to you in particular about the scene?

Rachel Drake (13:20.375)
I mean, I've said it before and I'll say it again, but the community there is incredible. I mean, the kindness and the generosity and the enthusiasm for the sport is just amazing. And I think, I mean, anyone listening to this podcast is probably listening because they love trail running. They love the people that they meet in it.

And that's the reason I'm in the sport. And then to go halfway across the world and feel that in almost an even higher degree of that love and just, yeah, the kindness they have. I mean, I have so many good little stories of just kind things that people did for other people or for us while we were there. It was just like Tyler and I would look at each other almost in tears. Like, can you believe this? This is, I mean, these people are amazing.

great community. And then that's not even to mention like the beauty of the city and the trails and really easy place to travel. Yeah, it was a great experience.

Finn (14:24.81)
It seems like the mountains there, which are spectacular by the looks of them, they're sort of like they hover right over the metro areas. You can kind of run in the mountains, straight into the downtown if you want.

Rachel Drake (14:32.197)
Yeah.

Yep, yeah, it's pretty incredible. Like to have basically New York City, but with a massive network of trails surrounding it. Yeah, it was really, really neat.

Finn (14:47.902)
And then are the trails buffed out? Is it like California carpet? Is it technical?

Rachel Drake (14:53.008)
No. So I guess there's quite a variety of surfaces. There's a bit of road, some running on the beach, some almost like sidewalks through the jungle, and then also some dirt. But then I think the biggest theme of the Hong Kong Trails is stairs. There's steep stairs, gradual stairs, short stairs, long stairs.

Any type of stair you could think of, they had it there. So that was a unique feature for both Tyler and I, just to be racing on stairs for a long time.

Finn (15:31.754)
Very cool. Well, yeah, again, just kind of going back to how it was portrayed on social. It kind of felt like a similar environment to Ultra Show Cape Town there in Cape Town, South Africa, maybe bits and pieces of Chamonix, maybe bits and pieces of Auburn during Western States time. It just seems so cool. And I'll be curious to see if this becomes something that a lot of people immediately look to early season, because the last two months, like December and January,

with the exception of this race, they do sort of feel like the off season. So I don't know. Very exciting.

Rachel Drake (16:02.127)
Yeah, yeah, I hope more people go there. You know, with trail running growing so exponentially in Asia, I feel like there's this sort of unspoken and unfounded expectation that the trail runners in Asia come to Europe and come to the United States, but we should also be going to them. So I hope that more Americans, more Europeans take on those trails.

Finn (16:31.638)
Moving to Black Canyon, sort of talking about like how you've trained for it, how you studied for it the last two-ish months. Maybe starting with Intel. I know you're good friends with Keely. You've gotten some good training in with her recently. She's had a lot of success at this race. What have been some of the takeaways from talking with her about the course and how the race unfolds?

Rachel Drake (16:36.475)
Mm-hmm.

Rachel Drake (16:44.883)
Yeah.

Rachel Drake (16:52.783)
Yeah, I think she, obviously she absolutely crushed it. She said just like, you know, certain people will take it out fast. And I mean, I feel like it's all the classic trail running stuff. Like don't light too many matches too soon and make sure you're eating. And you know, if it's hot, cool yourself down.

Um, I think Keely having been coached by Tyler and then me also being coached by Tyler, knowing that Keely and I are different people and we need different things, but I feel like that's given me a lot of confidence in my path, just having, having Tyler along and Keely of course, like though Tyler's writing my training, I also will touch base with Keely kind of more on like the, the like nutrition and

you know, like menstrual cycle type things, just to make sure that I'm in a good place with all of that. So yeah, I got a good team.

Finn (17:58.734)
Tyler's gotten a golden ticket here before too, right? A couple years back? Okay.

Rachel Drake (18:00.887)
Yeah, yeah, he won in 2021 and I actually ran the, Leah and I ran the 60K that year as well. So I've seen a lot of the course, yeah.

Finn (18:08.67)
Oh, right. Yes. Okay. For you is the is the draw of this race? Is it the course? Is it the desert? Is it the competition? Is it what's at stake with golden ticket? Talk about that.

Rachel Drake (18:19.215)
It's honestly, so it's kind of a little bit of world trail majors and it's also like loving Jubilee and Jamil and wanting to support their business and kind of promote their whole situation. So it just felt like a good fit, felt like a good time from CIM being two months after. I think there were a lot of things that fell into place with it.

Finn (18:47.566)
From a training standpoint, were you touching trails at all during the CIM build up or was it sort of like a reintroduction in the last two months and has that been like something we've had to like re-familiarize yourself? Talk about that.

Rachel Drake (18:59.919)
Yeah, a little bit. In the past, when I did road marathons, I sort of begrudgingly said, I'm gonna still run trails, I'm gonna go skiing, I'm not gonna just be a road runner. But this time I said, you know, I don't need to be so, I don't need to be so strict. And so I just did mostly road running. I hardly did trail running during the CIM build, which I think...

led me to feeling even more excited and even more fresh on the trails because I went for a run in the Columbia River Gorge shortly after CIM and I was just blown away with the splendor in there. I had forgotten how green and lush and wonderful it was. So yeah, it's been more of a reintroduction the last two months.

Finn (19:46.498)
feeling good, like healthy, the long runs have kind of clicked, the workouts have clicked, stuff like that.

Rachel Drake (19:51.747)
Yeah, yeah, I think so. I'm really happy with the training block. I think it's hard to go into 100k when you're never going to run 100k in practice, but I was actually talking to Nuria Piquis, the Spanish Charming Legend, and she just said, you know, if you want to do the longer stuff, you just have to do it because you don't know how you're going to respond and you're never going to go there in training. So...

just get as fit as you can. And that's kind of, that's what makes it exciting is that you don't know exactly how it's gonna go.

Finn (20:29.074)
This is a little bit of a side topic, but I'm reminded of it. Like you, as I've observed, you and Tyler, just in your running the last couple of years, you both strike me as really dedicated and really diligent when it comes to prep for these big races. And I've always wanted to know, is that a skill or a mindset that both of you have, or does one influence the other?

Rachel Drake (20:52.047)
It's all Tyler. Like, oh yeah. He, I mean, I feel like for the longest time I was just like such a free spirit when it came to trail running. I was like, I'm not doing workouts or don't tell me what my workout is until the day of. And I don't wanna think about it. Don't even tell me who's in the race. Like, I don't wanna know what the course is like. And Tyler was very much the opposite where he was like.

Finn (20:53.525)
Is it really?

Rachel Drake (21:18.891)
studying the course and like being very specific and being very disciplined with his heat training and his lifting everything like his uh mindfulness and so I see the success that he's had with that sort of doing it over the time that I've known him going from being a full-time teacher just you know to now a sponsored athlete it's like okay this

consistency and dedication, there's something there. So he's rubbed off on me for sure.

Finn (21:54.254)
Amazing. Yeah, huge credit to Tyler and maybe that is a major part of the key, like you said, to longevity and the sport durability. And as like talent starts to equalize or become very close at a certain point, the difference maker is like, how hard are you willing to prepare like logistically and then doing like the one to 2% stuff?

Rachel Drake (22:04.133)
Mm-hmm.

Rachel Drake (22:15.983)
Yes. Yes, Keely and I were just talking about this, like, and Keely's been in the sport, you know, almost a decade and she's saying, you could, you could be you could get on a starting line and just be way more fit than your competitors and win the race that way. And you could be bad at eating or not do any strength. But nowadays, you kind of have to if you want to be if you want to be competitive, you kind of have to be good at everything.

You can't really let anything slide, which is really exciting.

Finn (22:47.194)
Do you think that's a very recent change or has that been building for a while?

Rachel Drake (22:52.579)
I think probably more gradually building, but I think maybe we're just starting to notice it more now. It's kind of like in Triathlon, I listened to this podcast with Chelsea Sidaro, and she said, you know, five, seven years ago, you could be a really bad swimmer and a good biker and runner and you could win, but now you have to be pretty good at all three. I think it's kind of a similar thing.

Finn (23:17.798)
In your case, and I apologize because I haven't studied maybe like your 2019 season as close as I should, but do you feel like you're working at about the same capacity that you were then to achieve the same results or have you had to level up yourself to sort of like stay closer to the top of the sport?

Rachel Drake (23:36.155)
It's a really difficult question because I am just, it feels like a different person. Like my body's completely different after having a baby. So my mileage right now is significantly less, but I'm honing recovery a lot more and focusing on the little things a lot more. And I think with all that in mind, I feel better, but it's, you know, people have asked me, do you feel like you've,

Do you feel like you're back postpartum? And I'm like, I will never be back. I think about, I think about Sha'Carri Richardson when she says, I'm not back, I'm better. It's like, I mean, I don't want to say that. I just feel like I'm not back, I'm different. Yeah, so funny.

Finn (24:17.166)
Yeah.

Finn (24:23.798)
That's a great quote, by the way. Assuming you, let's just assume you get a golden ticket, uh, which I know is like, you know, obviously I think you're one of the front runners for the race, but it's, it is an assumption. What is assuming you get the golden ticket? What does the rest of the year look like for you?

Rachel Drake (24:31.871)
Mm-hmm

Rachel Drake (24:42.295)
Um, we've been talking about going to Miuut, the Madjara Island Ultra Trail. So I would, I would probably do a shorter distance race there. And then I, yeah, I don't really, I don't really have anything else, um, aside from Western States that I would want to do. Maybe some local 50 Ks or something. Um, yeah.

Finn (25:07.555)
What's the why now? What's the why now for Western states?

Rachel Drake (25:11.239)
Um, I think, you know, I'm, I'm starting residency in July and it feels like a great time to just dive into something big like that, to get my first hundred mile under my belt before I start that. And then I always joked that I needed to have a kid before I ran a hundred miles and now I've had a kid. So I think it's time.

Finn (25:34.862)
Do you feel like, yeah, this is one thing I'm curious about. Like you obviously had the experience of bringing a human into the world. You have done a lot of impressive things already sort of on like the academic medical front. Does this new residency program, does this sort of up the stakes in terms of where you're able to invest time from like a running standpoint? Like, is this even more, I don't wanna say destabilizing, but forcing you to reevaluate how much you wanna invest in the sport after you get into it?

Rachel Drake (26:05.579)
I think there's just uncertainty with that. I mean, anyone who has been through residency or knows someone who's been through residency knows that there are busy times within it. But I'm still optimistic that I'll be able to, you know, be a competitive athlete throughout it, knowing that there will be more busy and less busy times. And depending on where we go.

For example, if we end up in Salt Lake City, I think it would be a great place to continue pursuing that.

Rachel Drake (26:41.903)
Yeah, it's just, there's a lot of uncertainty because we don't know where we're going. I don't know exactly what it's gonna be like. I hear great things about a lot of different places that I interviewed and I'm excited about a lot of different places that I interviewed. And I think a lot of them would be great places to run and also to raise a family and learn how to be an anesthesiologist. But the word destabilizing is good because we just don't know what the future will hold.

Finn (27:10.198)
When you said Salt Lake City, first of all, I do hope you guys move to Salt Lake City. It would be amazing. We would love to have you here, but I'm imagining a version two of that free trail film where they caught you sort of like, uh, running commuting to work. And I can just see you like using the Bonneville shoreline trail here in Salt Lake City as part of like your run commute into the hospital and still finding a way to, to get the training in to, to be, you know, performing at a high level in the sport, but also, you know, doing your work well too. So I dunno, I'm super excited and I hope, I hope you move here. It'd be amazing.

Rachel Drake (27:22.733)
Oh yeah.

Rachel Drake (27:28.243)
That'd be awesome.

Rachel Drake (27:39.747)
I know a lot of people who work at the University of Utah do that commute. Like I've had classmates who have gone there and yeah, I think it'd be a great place. But yeah, again, I've done this for a long time. Like I've been in this MD-PhD program for 10 years and I've had all of these races under my belt within that. So while this will be different, I feel like there will be a way to figure it out. So I'm excited to see what it looks like.

Finn (28:10.45)
Awesome. Well, Rachel, it's it is such a pleasure to have you on the show. I'm really excited to watch your race unfold at Black Canaan a couple of days from today. And yeah, we'll make sure to link to all of your couple days. I think I think about, yeah, well, 10 days from now. And yeah, very, very excited. We'll make sure to link to all of your social media in the show notes. Any final thoughts, calls to action for listeners and viewers before we go?

Rachel Drake (28:19.615)
Couple days. Oh, it's gonna come out later. Okay.

Rachel Drake (28:28.583)
Yeah.

Rachel Drake (28:40.367)
Ooh, calls to action. Go to the Hong Kong 100K. Go experience that. That or like Ultra Trail Mount Fuji. Just go race, go race in Asia.