Heather Jackson | 2023 Western States 100 Pre-Race Interview

Welcome back, or welcome to, the Single Track Podcast. I'm your host, finn Milansen, and in this episode, we're joined by Heather Jackson ahead of the 2023 Western States 100. Before we get started, though, this episode is brought to you by Hoka Rabbit Morton and Features Head to the show notes page of this episode for new product releases and discount codes from each of our four sponsors. With that, let's get started. All right, heather Jackson, welcome back to the Single Track Podcast, live, this time in Olympic Valley.

I know live, i love it. It's so good to see you and be with you guys in person.

You know. Welcome to the Single Track HQ for the week.

It's amazing. I love it So cool to be here. Thanks for having me.

From what I understand, this is your first uh first time in Olympic Valley, not just Western States, but Olympic Valley. What are your first impressions?

Oh my God, i honestly like I feel like a kid in a candy shop. I'm just like my phone is out. I'm just that first timer that's taking photos of everything and just taking it all in and just so excited to be here. Should we run up?

that Should we run up, that Should we run up that Exactly All the trail there's.

just the whole drive here was just trails and like, oh my God, is that part of it? Is that? do we run there? Should we run there today, like just yeah, it's been awesome.

Where did you drive here from?

Uh, we just drove here from Tucson. Uh, so we got into Truckee last night. Uh, yeah, last dinner time last night.

Until we saw the weather change pretty drastically for this race, I was telling people that nobody would be more heat trained for this race than you.

You are here seeing me in person. I literally shed a layer or two because I'm like this might be embarrassing. I had like another puffy coat on. I am so frozen. This morning I woke up and it was 33 in Truckee and I was like shit, this is the time we start on Saturday, and so I've actually been like not scrambling but kind of thinking what I should do for the start, because, like all the photos I see of the start of this race, people are in shorts and T shirts like Camille Herons and like a broad top, and I'm like, do they really start in 30 degrees like that?

Last year at the start I think it was in the fifties Um same with the previous years like this is just. This is just a cool year. Um I was kind of catching it on one of the rare, uh, cooler temp years, um not to say that it will feel cool the whole time. So I think you know all the heat training that you've been doing is still going to be beneficial.

Yeah, i'm like, okay, everyone was all. I heard a lot of what I heard about Western Saces. It gets so hot and I'm just like, okay, full Kona mode, we're going to be heat prepped. We're going to stay in Tucson all of May because usually we kind of migrate north to bend earlier than we have, and I've been in Tucson the last five weeks and it's been a hundred plus.

So So, even though you know you're still relatively new to the trail running world, you're not new to racing and hot weather. Um, have you taken a lot of the heat training strategies from preparing for races like Kona into this race?

For sure. I mean, i, yeah, i Kona had been my focus for seven, eight years and literally you have to train the swim, bike run, but you have to train the heat. That's as important, if not more important than the three sports you have to do, because if you can't operate in the heat, um, it makes no, it's pointless All the training you do to run certain mile splits or or swim a certain thing, when you're just like, yeah, blowing up in the heat. So I it took me a few years in Kona to figure that out like doing, you know, sauna protocols or these kind of other things you could do in, say, not as a hot place, and it didn't go that well for me. And that's just a personal what I need to do. And that literally led us to in 2000, i think it was 15. Buying a condo in Tucson specifically for Kona prep and knowing, okay, i need to be in the actual heat for six weeks And I would get to Kona the second early October and step off the plane, it would feel cool. And so literally, like I just mentioned, i heard heat prep I'm like, okay, i know what I have to do. And so we did the same thing just the last month or so in Tucson. So hopefully those canyons I mean yeah, hopefully, um, i get down into them and it's not too too crazy Yeah.

You've been on our radar for quite some time. We've been avid followers of your YouTube content for many years, but we first got to see you race last fall at the Hoveley and a hundred And you really brought awesome fireworks to that race And I remember seeing you on lap two or lap three and just thinking, wow, she looks so smooth, like she's a natural convert the trail. You did have a little bit of a struggle in the second half of the race, but still a very impressive debut. Talk about what you learned from that race and what you're hoping to translate into Western on Saturday.

I remember when we did the podcast the first time and I like looked up I think it was on socials or something And I was like, oh my, i saw the two of you because you had been there, and I was like, oh my God, i think we ran at some point together, or close.

Yeah, i think most of the first lap, i just didn't, didn't know it. but then looking back at the splits was like Oh, you ran together for 25 miles.

Totally, I was like I had to put a name to a face And I think you had like a super cool shirt on or something right, Or a colorful or yes, shouts to Dylan brand.

uh running one of my college teammates designed it.

Oh, awesome. Yeah, I saw the photos. I'm like Oh my God, i remember like being near you, so anyways yeah, have a Lena. That was, um, that was a interesting one. I was uh, obviously coming off not obviously, but I was coming off Kona fitness and just purely using that Just get out there and see how this trail running thing goes And I, uh, i felt pretty solid through probably 70. I think it was 70 ish miles And then before the, uh, the rails came off. But, um, to your question, i think I walked away from that being like, okay, i really need to work on the downhill running. Um, i think, just general fitness and general endurance. I have that from years of Ironman racing. I'm used to racing eight, nine, 10 hours And so that doesn't, it isn't really daunting to me. It's more um, kind of the style of running And that's not going down to the bike path in Tucson and ticking off you know mile wraps, it's like get into the hills and try to really pound the quads down. So that's been the biggest thing I've been working on the last six months just trying to, yeah, shred the quads and recover and hopefully, all the ups and downs Saturday we'll see a little bit better than have a. Lena went last October.

In every race that we've seen you perform into date, you've always been right there at the front of the field. I feel like, and this could be just a function of you running your own race, but you've always been there mixing it up at the front. When you think about your strategy for races like black Canyon and Havilena and Western on Saturday, do you plan these out to run your own race? Are you someone that likes to respond to the elements, the competition and just how people are out there performing on that given day?

Yes, I think, um, i'm, i'm a racer, for sure, i definitely I love to race and I'm not going to change that approach. I race by feel and I race by my competition, my competition in terms of, like someone's going, i'm going to go. I love that I also feel like I need to give a little like uh context to the fact that listeners, your listeners, are probably mostly trail runners, or runners, and so in triathlon I was always out of the water last or one of the last people. So I'm coming from a history of literally what is it going to be when I get out of the water and see my husband Wadi? is it going to be six minutes, Is it going to be eight, Is it going to be 12 or 15? And I would go into triathlons knowing, like this disappointment in my gut of like what's it going to be today And how hard am I going to have to chase on the bike and then in the marathon to try to get up near the front. And so now I'm coming into this sport where I'm not just like literally from the start, knowing I have to claw back 10 minutes. So I think it's this excitement of like, oh my god, this must be what, like Lucy Charles feels like I'm not at a deficit so early. So I think I probably get caught up in like OK, like I'm near the front, I got to stay up here, like do what I can to do that. And just I mean, and obviously, yeah, still just being new to this sport and not really understanding the like how you even pace these, I mean I don't know, I still don't know And I baffle that how you ever kind of gain that knowledge over the time. Obviously, these top women like Courtney's here, like all these top, top women, they have their strategy dialed And I do feel a little bit novice being like I don't have the pacing strategy, I just race by feel. But I hope that one of these times maybe it'll be that like Hail Mary and stay.

And I definitely don't think that there's any one strategy that's better than the other. I think that tweets their own, but one and you mentioned it there. One element of this race that's so exciting to me is there's you, there's Keely, there's Courtney, there's Katie the list goes on. People that are here and they enjoy the racing component, like it's not just necessarily the race falling back to them or that kind of stuff, but like being up there in the mix early on. I love that.

I appreciate you putting my name in with those women because they're, i mean, the top of the sport. And yeah, just to even be on the start line, i was telling my husband I'm like I've met. well, i haven't met Katie in person, i've messaged with her a bunch. I think she's done a little bit of try early on, So she had reached out after Havalina. But, Courtney, I've never met, I've never been her in person. I'm like I'm going to find her and line up next to her at the start line And be like I am next to Courtney DeWalter.

That's awesome, that's so good. Yeah, and that's I mean. Yeah, that's one of the great parts of racing is like you do all start on the same start line And everyone has the same opportunity for greatness out there, diving a little bit into the race and the course. Are there any? what elements of the Western States course do you find most intriguing? Because it's a very diverse course in terms of all the different sections of it.

Yeah, totally. That's why I'm like I'm so excited, because it's not. I feel like you can't just like map out, ok, here are the splits I want to hit, or the yeah what, how things will go, because it's so unknown. I mean we're running up snow. I mean I have yet to go over and see it, but I've seen some pictures and video, like you're running up snow And it's from things I've listened to, 30 miles potentially of different snow. So it's that's so different than just like, ok, here's we're going to go run this very straightforward race. So I think the snow is super intriguing. I didn't know this at the time, but I come from New Hampshire originally. I'm from New Hampshire, nice.

Yes, northease fans here.

OK, perfect, socks ruins Celtics, yeah, ok. So I love the winter and I love the holidays, and so I spent all of December and most of January in Bend literally running in the snow, and at the time it was just because I wanted to be with my family in the holidays. Wadi always heads to Tucson earlier. He's from San Diego, he's a total SoCal guy out of the snow. And now I'm looking back. I'm like, ok, i ran in the snow all December, like maybe that muscle memory will come back. But it's more that, yeah, the intrigue and the excitement about getting through that. And then all I've heard about is the canyon section, just up and down the heat, how that will be the wearing part. And then the final bit is, quote, unquote, runnable, so kind of having those three different things to break it up and have different focuses on of like, ok, like how are all these different things going to go?

You raced to Canyon's 50k back in April, correct, correct? OK, so you've done miles in the back half. Any other familiarity with the course? No, other.

And we literally I mean you know Yeah And May, we were like I should either do a heat heat block or like an altitude block or a race specific block. We literally weighed that out.

Yeah.

And it was like we were going to come to Auburn or this area early and just be on the course and training. And I've done that before in triathlon And it has actually backfired for me just being here, being at the spot for so long that by the time the race comes it's almost like you lose that excitement for it. You kind of just want the race to be here because you've been here for so long You've run the same trails Interesting, and that's not to say I wouldn't do that in the future maybe or come and practice more. But I have done that for Kona and it was like by the time the race came around it was almost like a mental fatigue. You just you weren't as excited for it. And then we weighed the altitude in the heat and we were like, okay, like we run out of altitude. So I was like maybe the heat will weigh more in terms of like what we should prioritize and just out of ease, and we have a condo in Tucson, like staying there made sense. But to your question, besides canyons, which we only covered, i think the final, like four or five miles coming up, i don't have any idea what's ahead.

One other question that comes to mind you obviously have a long history with Kona, a long storied history with Kona. Are you someone that likes to create multi-year projects out of races, like? could you see, like, even if you knock it out of the park at Western States this year, could you see yourself coming back year after year to kind of fine tune and just get the best out of yourself?

I mean totally to your question. I think I fall in love with races and the communities and the people and all that races and all that encompass certain races. And I found that in triathlon I fell in love with Kona and just getting there every year and putting so much towards it And I could definitely see that even coming here for canyons I mean the main point of me racing canyons was just to get out and kind of check things. And even from that, which was a short weekend, I fell in love with Auburn. I fell in love with Hoka. I did a project with Hoka that whole week and we met a bunch of kind of the historical people around the event and it was really cool and I already felt that draw of like this is quite the event. This is the 50th year too. So, my first time doing this knock on wood. There will hopefully be a future as well. I get to do it for the 50th year, which is so cool.

Absolutely. You had mentioned doing a project with Hoka. Hoka's been one of our sponsors for this week and we're super thankful for them. When we were doing the broadcast for the Black Canyon 100K one of the things that almost went by I was like every time we would see Heather Jackson we were like is she wearing a different pair of shoes than last time? So how big is the shoe closet? I would love to know what the shoe plan is looking like for race day Resident shoe nerd here, Okay cool. I mean, yeah, you got to be a shoe nerd.

Yes, exactly, you have the kitty hokazan and I also have them, and I wish Heather has a pair as well. Yes, i wish I had worn them today.

You got the cool laces.

I have. So I have the trial laces in. These are the speed laces because obviously over like whatever 20 hour day, i really need to save five seconds in transition. So the speed laces are in.

It's all about the mentality.

I'm actually reminded. So this was something that Arling Glick, in the Men's Field, talked about His last 100 miler, which was in North Carolina this spring. He spent a total of 21 seconds in aid stations in route to a win. And I'm curious have you thought at all about like your aid station strategy and how much time you either want to save there or do you want to really spend your time there to take care of yourself? You know, get wet if it's hot. Change you? stuff like that? Oh my goodness.

So, again coming from Triathlon, where I always had to make up time, i was always in a deficit. I would literally strive to win the transitions because that was for me 30 seconds I could make up. That's a minute, and some races had come down to 10 seconds. So it's like there was your race right there. If I just had gotten my shoe on quicker. So I'm very aware of transition, or I don't know what they're called.

Yeah, I kinda like that phrase for this.

Okay, transitions transitions. So for me, yeah, i really try to. I'm we're still kind of laying out what the aid nutrition looks like, what I'm grabbing, but to make sure that's dialed and to be in and out of those aid stations as quick as possible. I feel like I have to give a shout out to Pat Reagan, fellow Hoka runner.

Okay.

He before Havalina I did a little like phone call with him, consultation. He was one of the first people I met at a Hoka kind of brand conference and was the first time I kind of started following trail running or I was like, wow, this is cool, like, and Pat has always been amazing, like super supportive in Tri-Side and now they're running. But he made a comment to me of like if you look at a race at Havalina or 100 mile race and how many aid stations are, there's four lap. You're doing five laps, it's 28 stations. If you take do one minute in each one, that's 20 minutes. If you take two minutes at every one, that's 40 minutes. So that's the difference between, like whatever, a 16 hour day and a 16 40. Fastening. So when you think of it that way, it's very like well, that's 40 minutes. So obviously you have to have to take time to get the aid you need, but I am very much like in and out Cool.

Yeah, i think last year in the ladies race, 40 minutes was the difference between like second and seventh or eighth place. Okay, yeah, yeah, exactly, yeah, that's a absolutely.

I'll be out there trying to obviously, yeah, taking care of myself, but I will be like Speed laces. Speed laces are in.

The speed laced mentality.

Yeah, i like that. I might hashtag that speed laced mentality.

I did interrupt, brett, though, to the extent that you can disclose it. What shoes are you wearing on race day?

Oh yeah, so well, that was partly why I wanted to get over this, check out the snow. I'm pretty positive. I'm gonna start in, I don't know, the Hoka Speed Goats. I feel like they're a little bit kind of lower to the ground for, like, maybe better feel in the snow and the lugs are pretty good And they're a little bit less than. I've talked to some of the other Hoka runners of what they're starting in, like the Maffates or some of these other options. In my mind those are a little bit more like solid or more material or heavier, And if they get wet or I don't know.

I also haven't spent A lot of drainage.

I spent too much time in them so I don't wanna switch. I've run in the Speed Goats a lot, so I think a little bit lower to the ground in the snow. I'll start with those I'm trying to figure out like cause. I've also been watching a lot of the past year videos and the aid stations, everything I'm like. I haven't seen anyone changing shoes in Robins and Flat, but my plan is to change there because I've heard there's no snow after that, so I would maybe pull on the Tecton X there. There are the new ones out that are a little bit cushier, but still trail, and I may or may not be pulling on the Carbon Rocket X2s at some point.

I love that, i love that We love the Rocket X2 here. I'm a Rocket X2 fan.

They're so good It's like free speed. I literally I know I'm coming from a road, but That's a good tag on free speed. Yeah, it's like hard for me not to pull them on, so it's just a matter of when. I don't know. Originally I thought it would be a lot later in the race, and then I've been messaging with Cole Watson, fellow Hoka runner, and I don't know if they're coming on earlier for him. I don't want to speak for him. That's.

Brett's athlete Okay.

Did you advise him not to award?

I needed advice After we stopped recording. I'll give you the full breakdown. I need it.

Yeah, i'll let you know, But I was like, okay, I mean I already wanted to, So all I need is that one little person being like I'm gonna chew And I'm like, all right, they're going on. So if not there, than maybe like that last, the one after the river.

Oh, Greengate.

So somewhere in there I'm thinking those will go on, But Exciting. Yeah, that's. that's the hooker.

All the more reason to tune into the live stream.

I know. I know The transitions and the shoe changes.

Get your Heather Jackson shoe bingo cards ready.

Yeah, exactly. I'm going to use that free speed tagline during our ad reads. Oh, and the speed lace mentality And the speed lace mentality.

So, much good stuff. Yeah, I think we need to have you on for a future Long Run Archives episode. Just be amazed how many great ideas have already come to existence on this one.

Perfect. Yes, that'd be awesome.

Are we ready to continue the tradition?

Yes, the single track HQ, tradition Dylan is going to supply us with the official watermelon of.

Western states. Oh my goodness.

And you said that you had been listening to a lot of the content leading up, so I think you might already know what's going on, see how much you've been practicing. But two things We would love for you to draw your best cougar. We'll give you 15 seconds And then, if you can sign it And we're still figuring out what we're going to actually do with the official watermelon of Western states It's going to the track.

Yeah, it's definitely going to the track.

We're thinking maybe like a golden hour, like warm gross watermelon, We'll cut it open or something I don't know, But for now we'll go by him And I'll begin the countdown.

I know I'm like to listeners. I've been listening to all the single track podcasts. They're a whole drive up from Tucson So I knew it was coming, And yet I did not practice drawing, So I need to look at the cougar.

We're going to give you 15 seconds in three, two, one go. Oh my god, I need to 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. Time's up, let's see it, let's show it to the fans.

It's just the cougar. The signing wasn't in the time.

OK, we'll have you sign it. No, yeah, you don't have to.

Let's show it off to the viewers.

I don't think it's legible. That's awesome, Oh it looks great.

We'll put up more pictures on the single track Instagram page. I love the signature too. Yeah, it looks like it's kind of like actively stalking.

Exactly.

It's in hunt mode.

Exactly, this cougar has the angle. How do I change the camera?

here The angle.

The bottom right OK.

Yeah, this one has the speed lace mentality.

Oh my gosh. Yeah, can I write that on there? Thank, you. Speed lace mentality Awesome, that's a thing now.

Heather, i know we've said it before, but we're so grateful that you're here today. Thank you so much for sitting down with us and sharing your wisdom. I think just your entry into the sport is so exciting and we cannot wait for the imminent fireworks on race day. It's going to be so fun to follow your race.

Oh my gosh. Thank you guys so much for having me. I feel honored.