Eurotrack #2 - Katie Schide | Western States 100, Lavaredo 120K, Hardrock100

Finn (00:01.034)
All right, we are back with another episode of Euro Track. I'm joined by co-host Katie Scheid to run down some of the relevant events of June and to look forward into July. Katie, how's it going?

Katie (00:14.823)
Hey Finn, I'm excited that I'm a co-host this time.

Finn (00:20.711)
I'm excited too. And we were joking offline because I actually, I have a couple questions for you that could potentially turn this episode into an interview. I promise they'll be brief and it all has to do with Western States. We were talking on the track at Placer High shortly after your race or the day after before the award ceremony. And I realized that there were a couple things that I'm just personally curious about that I didn't ask you there. And I think the first one is

Will you return to this race in 2024? Why or why not?

Katie (00:54.05)
I don't have an answer for that yet. Yeah, Megan asked me that in my Iron Foreigner review, and I feel pretty split 50-50 right now, so I think it will depend on a lot of things. Yeah, I'm not totally sure. I would like to, but I also don't know if I want to pursue something else.

Finn (01:15.306)
Yeah, because I mean, you put a lot into it, right? Like you ended up spending the better part of two months in the US training for the race. Does that factor in to a lot of the decision, just the amount of like sacrifice and in time spent state side to prepare for this race adequately?

Katie (01:31.389)
Yeah, actually the two months in the US I would say were like maybe the least committing parts of the whole thing. I started like not, I mean I kind of started thinking about this like in September, so I did a lot less skiing this winter. I was like driving down to Nice way more than I normally would to run.

I did the Coastal Challenge in Costa Rica, then I did EcoTrail Paris, which is a flat 80K. And that was like, normally at the time I'd be skiing. So yeah, I think you see the like two months I spent in the US, because I wasn't at home, but I invested so much more than just those two months. So I have to think about if that's something I wanna try to recreate or if it's something where like, now I did all of that and now I kind of have it in me and I have like kind of that confidence that I can.

can approach this race maybe with like less than, I don't know what was that, like nine months of sort of thinking about it. So maybe it's something where next year I could like just in quotes do two months specifically. But yeah, something to think about.

Finn (02:42.706)
It is interesting when you compare a race like Western States, perhaps to a race like UTMB, and I could be off track here, so correct me if I'm wrong, but it's interesting that a race like Western States, you know, might require you to be more of a one dimensional athlete and to shut down or significantly reduce your ski season to feel ready for it versus these more mountainous summer races where you can be a multi-sport athlete and you can be.

perhaps more well-rounded. Like I guess I hadn't considered that prior to this conversation that, you know, you do have to spend the vast majority of a calendar year being ready to peak for a race like Western States. That's very interesting to me.

Katie (03:28.542)
Yes, I don't even know if it's really the one-dimensional thing. For sure, like, Ski-Mo is more applicable to a race like Western States than... a race like UTMB than Western States, but I think it's also just that it's two months later, so you have that much more time to get back to running. Yeah, a lot of the bigger, like, partner ski races are mid-March to end of April.

So that would only be two months before Western States, whereas that's four months before UTMB. So it gives you a little more time to get back to running.

Finn (04:10.474)
Last question, I promise you, then we can get into the bulk of the episode. At this stage in your career, what do you value most when it comes to determining your annual race schedule?

Katie (04:23.79)
I think it's just whatever motivates me the most. It's whatever I'm like thinking about and I'm like, wow, I really want to do that and then I just quickly start, you know Google searching, I don't know like Airbnbs or the race course or you know What a different place is like as soon as you start finding yourself doing that. That's the signal to me like Okay, this is something I really want to do

Finn (04:49.21)
So it's not like surveying all of the quote unquote most important races in the sport and being like, okay, I just won UTMB. So now I have like, quote unquote, have to win Western states, I have to, you know, do Leadville hard rock, all that kind of stuff. Like you're it's what you're saying is it's not about, you know, ticking off all of the check marks on this like have to do list for someone of your caliber.

Katie (05:15.089)
No, I would say it starts there, and then it's like, okay, which one motivates me the most? I would say that motivation begins at the level of competition and the level of notoriety of a race, and then after that it's more like, okay, which one excites me the most right now? And see, when I got the ticket for Western States, when it was offered to me, I was immediately

Okay, it would be so cool to go to Flagstaff and train there and it would be so cool to be in the US and that just signaled to me like I should definitely do this because I'm already really motivated.

Finn (05:54.062)
switching gears. I was just talking with Brett Hornig, our other co-host. We did a Western States recap episode and one of the interesting stats that we took from all the results was that at least 45% of the field, 50% if we're gonna consider you to be an international runner, made up the men's and women's top 10 at last Saturday's race and

We theorize that we can chalk this up to more international golden ticket races and international runners being excited to take these opportunities to run Western. Would you say that is the case? Like when you talk to your colleagues, other runners in the French scene and beyond across Europe, do you find that there is an excitement to take these opportunities to run Western? What are your thoughts there on why?

international runners made up such a significant portion of the overall top tens.

Katie (06:56.021)
Yeah, I think the idea of the international golden tickets could make sense, but just thinking quickly like Janos got his ticket at a US race and then the rest of us and Ida also got it at a US race and then the rest of us got it at UTMB or had a ticket from

from Western States last year. So I'm not sure if it's really like the international tickets, maybe it'll help now that there's going to be more in Europe. But I mean, for me, it just signals that there's more money coming into the sport, because it's a huge financial investment to fly like in either direction, either for an American to come to UTMB or someone in Europe to come to Western States, like you have

to rent a place to live, you have to rent a car, you don't know anyone there, so you need support on the ground, and if you don't have any of that, you're probably not going to go. And I think this is just, you see athletes with higher levels of support being able to make that investment, or just make a smaller investment, because they know that if they're on the Hoka team, there's a huge Hoka support network when they get there, and can help them manage.

speaking English, if they don't speak English super well. We had Shen from the North Face team who was in California and he was with someone who was, he was with like his wife and also a TNF manager from China who was translating for him. So you need that support if you're an international athlete and that's something that's more and more available.

Finn (08:17.972)
Yeah.

Finn (08:36.61)
That's really interesting. Yeah, in preparing for our previous episode for Western States, I checked out Shen's Strava and he, similar to you, spent a considerable amount of time on the course and the lead up. I mean, I think he covered almost every mile, maybe a few miles uncovered in the high country, but that does seem to be a huge difference maker. I'm not sure if that's a new thing. Maybe you can comment on it with the North Face and these other brand sponsors for athletes,

Um, perhaps it isn't a relatively new phenomenon that, uh, with races like Western States and UTMB, um, it's sort of a given that, uh, sponsors will, uh, make a lot of room for you to go over there, get an Airbnb train specifically on the course for quite a bit. Did you feel like you had that support? For example, in your case, going to Flagstaff and setting up shop and, um, spending two months here.

Katie (09:36.013)
Okay.

I can't answer that question super well, but yeah, it depends on your sponsor and how they're willing to support you, whether that's just a place to stay race week or if that means in Shenzkasee had a manager from the Asian continent group.

with him. I'm not exactly sure what the setup was there because we are kind of divided between continents and support. So yeah, I mean, for sure, if you're like a French runner and you know that there's going to be, for example, like, let's just say Solomon, I mean, their athlete manager is French and he's going to be there and like, you know, Marianne Hogan speaks French and English, she's going to be there. Even if you're not super confident in English and you

and you know that you're gonna be around other French people that's like way more settling than just showing up in a foreign country where you don't, maybe you can speak the language, but it still doesn't feel as comfortable. And yeah, just knowing that there's people on the ground who know the race, who know where the aid stations are, maybe if you haven't spent enough time on the course, like you can trust the people around you have. And for me, that was really important that I had the Gaylords accruing and...

and pacing me because I knew that they, I knew that like they weren't going to miss an aid station, you know, like that was not part of any of my worry. That was like the bottom of the list of things I was worried about and that's really important when you're on the start line of such a long race.

Finn (10:57.367)
Yeah.

Finn (11:14.502)
One of the things that I've really enjoyed preparing for these episodes with you is just getting to more closely follow the social media of some of these European runners. One of them being Matt Schublanchard, who I was really excited about, by the way, heading into this race. I think he had one of the greatest performances of all time, almost out-dueling Killian at UTMB last year. But bringing up his name because last night I was on Instagram, checked out his social media and there's this one.

reel he made where he's in and out of the Robinson flat aid station at Western, you know, last week and kind of makes an interesting statement. He says in France, crewing on trail races is debated and in the United States, it's cultural in all caps. And I'm wondering if you can help me translate that. Like what does he mean when he says that the crewing experience over in Europe is debated, which is an interesting word choice.

versus cultural here in the US. It was just something that I came across and it caught my eye and I was fascinated because I didn't quite understand what he was saying there.

Katie (12:20.995)
I'm not 100% sure what he's getting after there. I mean for sure, crewing in the US is like way more of a thing than in European racing, but that's mostly just because at most European races you're like pretty limited to the number of people who can be crewing and like it's in a closed space. It's really like sterile kind of.

Like if you picture UTMB you have like one person inside a gym that like nobody can access unless they have paid for like a media pass or something and even then they're behind a barrier so you really have like your space, you have one person and I mean the origin of that is because there's just so many more people at these events that if every, if all two thousand runners at UTMB had five people crewing for them that becomes a lot to manage at an aid station.

So yeah, in Europe we're used to only just having one person. Obviously some races don't have that rule, but the bigger events do. And yeah, for sure, someone commented on, if you look in the Reels, someone commented like, oh, this is just like French people like to complain about everything, that's what you mean by debated, which in some ways is pretty true.

Finn (13:38.818)
Ha ha.

Katie (13:43.43)
Yeah, I mean it's a stereotype of course, like everyone in every country complains about something, but the French have a reputation for complaining, which I don't know, it depends who you are. That's like another debate, but yeah I know it's been brought up a little bit around some of these events because

this is arguably maybe one of the biggest environmental impacts of an event, is just the crew driving around, and maybe that's what he's referring to. I don't know where he saw this debate, but...

Finn (14:12.865)
Yeah.

Finn (14:22.058)
I got to say, so we will link to this video and the show notes in part because I just think it's an interesting topic to discuss, you know, demonstrating the differences between the European and American Ultra Trail scenes. But the comment section is pretty gold. So you know, Matt Chu is 30 plus miles into a hundred mile race and you know, he's it's a pit stop. He's in, he's out and there's a lot of collaboration around him. And there is this just to illustrate one, what I thought was a funny comment. There's someone that says,

This is how I should be treated after a day of doing the bare minimum, which I don't know that just that just cracked me up. Um, a lot of funny comments in here. We'll, we'll link to that in the show notes before we get on to recapping a bit of the 80 K world trail running championships. Is there anything else that you found interesting about the results from Western States, particularly on the international front? So like performances from Matthew or Janice or Eda or Esther, anything else we should cover before we move on?

Katie (15:22.952)
I mean, I can, I don't have anything like super specific. I think generally everyone seemed to have done really well, like at the race. There's a lot of fast times and I think that just shows how the sport's evolving. Esther, I was like particularly impressed with when I finished and then someone told me she, I don't know how far she was behind, like only 20.

I don't know, 20 or 30 minutes behind me. And like at some point in the race, the group behind me had been like an hour or something. And I was like, oh my God, wow, it's good. I ran fast at the end because she was closing really hard. And yeah, I think something interesting about like a race like Western States and international athletes in the same way that UTMB maybe doesn't highlight the same American athletes as would maybe.

do well in an American race. I'm not sure how to word this, but yeah Esther had like a great race at UTMB last year, but I think maybe this kind of race suits her even better. And she doesn't live in Europe, she lives in Hong Kong, but she's still doing more of like the European racing than the American racing. And I think sometimes some of these athletes in Europe who maybe are better suited for like these, I'm gonna say American style, like faster, less technical races.

Finn (16:26.318)
Interesting.

Katie (16:42.054)
like their skill set isn't as highlighted as well in the Alps. So it's interesting to see them, you know, maybe excel more than we would, like more than you might think from a result in the Alps, in the same way that an American who can maybe like win Western States, like, you know, with a super fast time might not translate as well to UTMB. So yeah, there's some of this like crossover where I think it allows different athletes to kind of showcase their best skills.

Finn (17:13.154)
Super cool. Well, we are about a month removed from the 80K trail running world championships over in Innsbruck, Austria. I know I was sort of glued to the live stream for that. I found it very exciting. Anytime we can combine trail running with the team element of sports that we see in other arenas like football, baseball, basketball, I get super excited. And I think it met a lot of my expectations, other folks' expectations.

Because we did do a recap on this about a month ago, there's just a couple of questions and comments that I had for you. The first centering around the French team, I noticed that there in recent years has been a fair bit of continuity in terms of the structure of the team, the people that represent France. Whereas for example, on the American team, there are a fair bit of shakeups. So you just see different compositions year in year out more so.

I'm wondering if you have any thoughts on that. Does it have to do with, for example, just the qualification process? Like in the US, we have our own sort of version of a golden ticket type thing, where like the top two at certain races get auto qualifiers versus sort of a resume process. Like, do you have any thoughts there?

Katie (18:34.156)
Yeah, I think one of the big things that you see with the French team, which is pretty obvious if you follow any of those athletes, is that the French Federation puts money into this. So these athletes are like very well supported. They have training camps throughout the year. They were on the course doing like

big training camp in a month or five weeks before the race so they'd all seen the race, they'd all run together, they'd all talked about the race, you know. And I mean, I can like divulge into how this is the same in schema but it's really different when a country federation is paying for all of your expenses to be somewhere as opposed to like you paying all of your expenses. And I don't know how well the US team is supported, I've never been on it, but

Finn (19:14.456)
Yeah.

Katie (19:20.222)
Knowing how the French team is supported Yeah, I think it just gives them a little bit more motivation to be on it because you feel truly part of something that's like working together and I Think they feel a little bit more I mean, I don't know This is just like my personal take on it, but I do feel like they are pretty They feel like they're really representing their country because they are because you know If you really go to the root of it like the country's taxes are paying for them

do this and that's really neat that they get to really feel the weight of you know their country and their team and that's I think that puts them in a slightly different position than other teams who maybe don't have as much support. The selection process is a little bit, I actually don't, it's changed a little bit in past years because they changed the coach.

I think Adrienne, so we'll actually get into this because, and Lise who's running Hard Rock, her husband is the coach of the French team. And I think he started two years ago. And he's changed up a little bit. He coaches quite a few athletes. I think he actually coaches a good portion of the athletes in the team. And the selection is usually in March or like late, like late spring.

So I will say that does kind of filter out most of the athletes who ski in the winter. So you'll, you will notice that most of the athletes in the French team don't ski, because the selection used to always be in March at the Venteux, which is kind of a famous early season French race, it's a 50k. They did a different event this year for the selection.

But yeah, it's usually too early in the season for someone who does a full schema career, so like someone who's really in the French schema team, it's not really possible for them to be in the trail running team.

Finn (21:25.23)
These are great insights and just to compare and contrast, and this is just from what I understand about the American team, the selection process this year out of necessity to some extent was pretty last minute. So there were at least, I think it was four or five runners, maybe more that didn't even know they were gonna be a part of the team until after Lake Sonoma, like seven weeks before the race. So that's interesting. I do believe from a compensation standpoint, travel to the races covered, jerseys are covered.

accommodations are covered, at least for the individual athlete, I don't think for the rest of the family. So there is some support, but like you mentioned a couple of things with the French team, like they have a coach. There does appear to be some year round work together well ahead of the race. They, they went ahead and previewed the course at in Sprook and got to know it intimately these that's pretty awesome. I don't know if things are going to change for the American team. Now that we have.

a two year runway before the next world championships, which I believe takes place in the Pyrenees in September, 2025. But that seems to be a pretty awesome model standard. Also interesting that this does preclude some athletes that do want to have a ski season though from being a part of the team. And I'm, I guess I'm curious. I mean, you can comment on any of what I just said, but I'm also curious. Do you feel like this team is hamstrung? There are a lot of great athletes.

Perhaps for example, your partner Germain, who might not be a part of the team because they value other sports.

Katie (23:04.144)
Um, I would say they're like, they're, they have a pretty good portion of the strongest runners in France.

um definitely some yeah i think the only thing with like these world championship events is it doesn't give as much visibility to your sponsors so people who are pretty focused on truly being professional have a harder time committing to this type of event because like especially in the french team they do

training camps together that they need to go to. So if you're preparing your own event, it's a little bit harder to make it work. So like, for example, like Cami Breos, she's never been on, as far as I can remember, she's never been on the French team, but she also skis all winter, so that could be part of it. But she's, yeah, very much like invested in what Solomon, you know, wants her to do and what she wants to do, so.

I don't know if that's part of the reason. They were trying to use, so in the past they were using like a singular qualification race. And I know that Adrian has been trying to use more just like races that people are already at to be indicators of whether or not they can be in the team. And then he'll kind of like invite people based on that.

criteria, like based on just kind of how he sees the race. I mean, he's been around the sport for a really long time so he has a good sense. I'm not sure like that's debatable if it's fair or not, but yeah, they definitely like, I think they do a pretty good job getting like pretty high level, like very high level athletes, obviously both the men's and women's winner of the ADK over French. And yeah, you can't, like of course you can't.

Katie (25:05.346)
it's hard to first predict who's going to be in the best shape at the time of the race and then get people who are like, I think they care that people are really committed to being in the team and I think that shows in their results that and when you see pictures of them like they're really you know into the team atmosphere it's not just individuals.

Finn (25:29.782)
Going through just a few of the French team members, a couple I'm familiar with, Thibaut Garivie, Audrey Tanguy, not as familiar with Benjamin Rubial, Baptiste Chasson, again, I apologize if I mispronounce any of these names, Manon Calle, Marion D'Elespierre. Can you shed light on any of these runners that an American audience might be slightly unfamiliar with that you've gotten to know over the years? I know you ran for Anne.

for many years so you might know Marion a little bit.

Katie (26:03.902)
Yeah, I know, I mean, I know all, I know everyone except Benjamin. I don't know him very well. I actually really don't know him at all. But yeah, I know Marion. We, yeah, we ran together. I mean, we were both with Anne. She's still with Anne. She's a doctor in Lyon, and she's been strong for a long time. And this was kind of like her, I would say this is definitely like her...

definitely the biggest result she's had so far. She had a great race at UTMB in 2021. She was fourth in like a very fast time. And yeah, I think that showed, like when she did that, I think that really showed that she did have these like big performances in her. Audrey, I also know very well, I haven't seen her much in the last couple years, but we're pretty good friends doing a lot of the same races a few years ago.

uh and Manon is a little bit more up and coming. She won TDS in 2021 I think. Um her dad is uh has been around the sport for a long time. So for example like at the Mute, which she won uh this spring, her dad was also I think he was in the top. I would have to go back and look at the results. He was at least in the top 15 then. He might have been in the top 10 but he's in his

fifties I want to say maybe even approaching 60. And he's also a Hoka runner, they're both Hoka, so I think that's pretty cool that like her dad is also up there at the same events. Baptiste is also a younger runner, he's um but he's had some good results. I think he did Trans Grand Canaria a year or two ago.

He did, he kind of had a crazy race at the 80k. He went out super crazy fast, but I think he's still like learning some pacing strategies, but he's got a lot of potential ahead of him. And who else? Oh, Tebo Garpia, yeah. He is also super strong. He's also a doctor. So some high performing individuals outside of running too.

Finn (28:21.302)
Yeah, I remember being at the finish line for UTMB. I've told the story before, but I was at the finish line of UTMB last year. And Thibaut had one of the most impressive finishes. I think he ran 85% of the race on no calories. I don't know how that's possible, but he did it. And he crossed the finish line and promptly just like laid down for 30 minutes, it was 30 some odd minutes. And you know, I was attended to by medical folks and

I've just never seen somebody like with that type of story, finished that race that depleted and still in the top 10. He's incredible.

Katie (28:59.378)
Yeah, yeah, he had some, I forget, I'm losing track of the years, but he won Transvolcania, I want to say two or three years ago. Yeah, he's had some really good results in the past. I think he was injured a little bit over the last couple years, but yeah, it was good to see his name again.

Finn (29:20.262)
Moving on to the Lava Rade 120k, which took place on the same day as Western States. I have a lot of questions for you here. The first is just talking a bit about the host city Cortina Dempezzo, which I understand is hosting the Winter Olympics in 2026. But you've run this race before you got second place back in 2021. So talk for a moment about

the community involvement in the race, what the ambiance is like, what that town is like, and yeah, and I guess maybe what the course is like too.

Katie (29:56.94)
Yeah, I mean the best way to describe it is kind of like a mini UTMB. I mean mini, it's not that much, 50k shorter, but just like the whole feel of everything feels like UTMB but just like turned down a few notches like in a more digestible format. Yeah, the Italians love sports just in general and this, yeah.

The 11pm start is strictly so that the Italians will all be out on the street like partying when you start. And that's cool for the ambiance, not so great for... I mean I personally don't like starting at 11 because then you spend the whole day just like wondering when to eat and when to nap and everything. But yeah, it gives it a cool feel at the start because there are quite a few people in the streets. You know, it's still Italian dinner time so they're just...

out there at the bars cheering. So that's pretty fun. And then, I mean, after that you actually, there aren't that many people on the course, more than like, more than Western states, I guess, but it's not, it's not like you're running through hordes of people for that long. Yeah, generally the race just has a great feel. I really enjoyed it. I would love to go back someday.

Finn (31:14.666)
And then how about the course too, because I was looking at historical results. You had a second place finish there. It seems like other Americans have had success there in recent years. Hayden Hawks won the race in 2018. Tim Tollefson won it in 2019. Other than the fact that, you know, all of you are united by the fact that you're talented runners. Do you, do you suspect there are any particular reasons why there's been some amount of American success there? Is it because the course is more runnable?

uh it's less of a mountain race like any reasons that might be the case

Katie (31:49.023)
Yeah, I think it's mostly that. It's way less of a mountain race. Yeah, it's, you're on a lot of dirt roads. I'm not saying those are flat dirt roads. There is like a pretty long flat dirt road section in the middle, but there are quite a few like access ski resort roads. So it's something that...

is just, yeah, I think it just favors people who are like good at running and running uphill because you can run a lot of the uphills as opposed to like needing to hike. And yeah, I think it works. I think it can just kind of favor someone with a lot with a stronger running background, for sure.

Finn (32:33.722)
This is something I've heard from multiple Americans that have been at races like Lavorado. And I think they were talking about Lavorado specifically, and I'm wondering if you can corroborate this or if this is just myth. But one runner I was talking to in particular said, you know, I've been to Western States, I've been to Lavorado. And in the first couple miles of Western States, it's very much a reunion type atmosphere where I'm chit chatting with all the runners and it's light and you know, we're joking, catching up.

And then I went and did Lava Rato and there was just dead silence in the first, you know, few miles and it was like heavy breathing and people were just immediately competing. Is that, is that a feature of, of races like Lava Rato? It's just cultural where as soon as the gun goes off, it's just like, we're on a mission. What can you say there?

Katie (33:23.6)
Yeah, I would say there's definitely more like chit chat among Americans, just in life in general, than in Europe. But I also think, yeah, there's just a little bit more like needing to fill dead space, which I like sometimes, it's like nice to just chit chat for no reason, but culturally I think there's a bit less of that in Europe.

Finn (33:31.615)
life in general.

Katie (33:51.054)
And like specifically the Labrador, I would say I don't remember talking in the beginning because there's so many people and it's dark and like people have poles out and like you're just trying not to like trip on someone, you know, everyone has their headlamps. It's not really like an atmosphere where you want to just have a chat because you're just trying to, you know, stay in your bubble and not fall over. Yeah, I think the races that start on these...

it also starts pretty flat. You're like on the road for a few kilometers before you cut into a like kind of a dirt road and then a trail. And it's the same at UTMB, like it starts flat on a dirt road and so you're running a lot faster than you would at like western states where it starts immediately uphill. Like immediately at western states you're hiking or jogging pretty slowly uphill so I think it's just more conducive to chatting than when you're...

you know, running way too fast down the road trying not to get trampled by other people.

Finn (34:51.446)
I was looking at the winning times, the podium results from this year's race. And then I was comparing just a year's past. You got second at this race in 2021, but if you had taken your result from 2021 and place it into this 2023 race, you would have won the race by roughly 30 minutes and I'm wondering if there's like, has the course changed at all? Is the race maybe not as competitive this year due to being diluted by the world championships and

other close by UTM re-races, what are your thoughts there?

Katie (35:25.271)
I think there's a few factors. Yeah, for sure the world champs took a lot of the European runners. And then it's, yeah, Lavorato is the same weekend as Western States and then IDK du Mont Blanc, so that also dilutes things a little bit. I don't know what the course conditions were like this year, if there was like...

maybe there was snow in places or not snow in places where we had snow so that can really change things also the temperature I don't know if it was hot or cold or what was going on. Fiona, who won, is a very strong runner so I don't think, yeah, there's nothing to take away from her performance there. I will also say the year that I did it, Camille Bria set the course record so it was a fat and we were running together.

most of the race like really together and I think that always helps bring up the finishing time is when you're really like with another girl. It's not that often that the girls are running together like so I think there's a few factors there that helped both bring our times up and maybe yeah maybe there was just more spacing in the girls and they didn't have as much pressure to push it or maybe there was snow or maybe it was hot.

I didn't really look into the details.

Finn (36:49.454)
So men's podium results, Jonas Roussi in first, Robert Hajnall second, George Piazza third. You mentioned Fiona taking the win on the women's side, Maryline Nikash in second, Emma Stewart in third. Anything more you can say about Fiona or Maryline or anyone else in the race that had a notable result in terms of their background and whatnot?

Katie (37:13.406)
Um, yeah, I know the girls better than the guys. I mean, I know of Robert from when he was third at second or third at UTMB a few years ago. Fiona is, uh, she lives not that far from here as the crow flies. I've raised her before. She does quite a bit of skiing in the winter. Um, and yeah, she's really like a mountain person. She...

She's, yeah, I mean I have like only nice things to say about her. She's a really strong athlete. And Marilyn is also from the same area, but the other direction. And yeah, I actually did the Eco Trail Paris with Marilyn. She's always present at a ton of races. She just won the Marathon du Sable a few months ago. So she's got a lot of experience and I think this was her first laberato. I'd have to double check with her, but...

Something interesting about Marilyn is that she lives in her California van, so that's pretty cool.

Finn (38:18.062)
California van.

Katie (38:20.904)
Oh, I guess in the US it's called a Eurovan, but in Europe it's called a California. Yeah.

Finn (38:21.486)
Super cool.

Finn (38:28.27)
That's awesome. Okay. Is the van life equally popular in Europe? Do you see athletes like Marilyn doing this? Because I know, you know, even being at Western States last weekend, you go into that Olympic Valley parking lot and every other car is a Ford Econoline, a Dodge Sprinter souped up. It's got, you know, a Starlink on the top of it. It's got, you know, water heater.

solar panels, all that kind of stuff. Like is that equally as popular a lifestyle route on the European scene?

Katie (39:03.586)
Not so much for living because we don't have like you can't if you had a vehicle as big as a Sprinter van You wouldn't be able to park it anywhere most parking lots even if they're if you know their outdoor parking lots have like an entry barrier at 1.9 meters and the California van is like 1.8 and a half. So that's the only van you can like park normally So yeah, you don't see the vehicles that big you wouldn't be I mean even if there was no parking barrier you don't feel it anywhere

Yeah, so I would say it's more like weekend vehicle. So it is pretty unique that Marilyn actually lives in Hearst.

Finn (39:44.79)
Before we talk about the Marathon du Mont Blanc, the 90K, I wanted to bring up an interesting question. So Dylan Bowman had a tweet about a year ago, and then actually he resurrected it last weekend because it was still relevant. And he talks about how he thinks having Lava-Reydo Western states and Marathon du Mont Blanc on the same weekend is bad for the sport. He thinks that it dilutes media coverage, it dilutes fan interest.

And he thinks that, you know, if we could spread out those three races on independent weekends, it would be better. I'm curious, what are your thoughts there? And cause like one of the first things that I think about is, um, if you, if we did spread out those three races, would we necessarily see the fans that are primarily interested in Lavarito tune into Western States, if they had a free weekend, or is it the case that all three of these races operate in their own bubbles to begin with?

and they're not really taking attention away from each other. Like, how do you think about that?

Katie (40:50.878)
Um, I think that's tough because yeah, Lavorato and Marathon du Mont Blanc have always been on the same weekend. I guess maybe in the past they've been one after the other before, but even then you can't, like it's always been, you have to choose one. And I do think they attract slightly different athletes. The 90k is a lot steeper. I think it has the same climbing as Lavorato but is 30k shorter. So.

it's a very different race and they're different communities, you know, like Cortina versus Chamonix, it's like a different center of running. And then for sure Western States is like on another continent, so you don't have as many of the same people following. Yeah, for sure if they were on different weekends you could like... the media coverage would be more... you could have more media coverage on each event.

Katie (41:51.727)
But I don't feel like any of them are really in the same niche. I mean we're already in a niche sport, right, but it's still like, you know, it's not La Verita and UTMB the same weekend. They are all a little bit different. I would say the Europeans have a little bit more trouble following Western states live.

and more look at the results after because it is only in English, whereas the... I guess Lavaredo probably had live coverage because it's by UTMB now, but when it's a by UTMB race and has live coverage there's at least like French, English, and Spanish, and then I guess in this case they would probably have Italian too, and that makes it easier to tune in, you know, just for like 10 minutes at a time, whereas if the...

Finn (42:24.59)
Great point.

Katie (42:45.594)
French person was to tune into Western states just for 10 minutes and maybe didn't understand English like maybe their English was like mediocre they're probably not gonna watch it for that long and be like a little lost because they can't just like quickly catch up on what's happening.

Finn (43:02.178)
Gosh, that is such a great point. I totally overlooked the fact that there really isn't much of an infrastructure for a non-American person to consume Western states. And that is one of the good things that UTMB does. I know they also had it at the Trail World Championships this year where the live stream was broadcast in multiple languages. And now I'm wondering when will we see the first year of Western states being broadcast in also French and.

Spanish, Italian, et cetera. It's very interesting to think about, but I think until then, I think you're right. There might not be too much of an overlap until there is a proper consumption opportunity for someone that is a native Italian speaker, for example.

Katie (43:47.798)
Yeah, and the other thing about Western states, there's so many of these like little rules that I didn't even know until I was doing the race, like the fact that, you know, anyone can run with you from the river to Green Gate, you know, people are asking me like, but why did you have, you know, eight pacers in this picture, but in this picture you have one and in this picture you have zero and then you have like 100 people running down this road with you here and you're like, okay.

Finn (44:07.304)
Ha ha.

Katie (44:12.474)
you're trying to explain like, well you know this part they can run with you, but so there there's a lot of things that don't come across outside of this like western states bubble that I think could be interesting to explain more.

Finn (44:29.838)
talking more about Marathon du Mont Blanc, I think we have a fair bit to talk about here. Your partner, Germain, won the race. But before we talk about that, I've always been curious, because I don't know much about this race, what parts of this course overlap with the UTMB races in September? Walk us through where it starts, where it finishes, and where and if there is any overlap with the greater UTMB courses that I think American audiences are more familiar with.

Katie (44:58.977)
Yeah, so the overlap is almost zero. They do, in the 90k, you do one climb that is the descent, that is a descent in UTMB, and that's it. Otherwise it's completely different. So I mean, it's probably not worth me like walking through everything because unless, oh no, I guess you do...

You also do the final traverse of UTMB when you go up to Tête-de-Vent and kind of traverse along this rocky trail to La Flegère. That is...they do that in reverse in the 90k. So there's very...there's nothing that's done in the same direction, basically, but I mean, I think, unless you really know Chamonix super well, it's probably not worth me explaining, but...

You basically do one, two, three, four, five climbs, five big climbs up and down the sides of the valley, and you make this big loop through the valley. And it's basically just going up, going down, going up, going down, five, uh, yeah, more or less five times.

Finn (46:04.526)
Gotcha.

Finn (46:13.218)
So men's podium results, Germain won the race, Louis-Saint-Croiffet and Hugo Deck second and third, women's podium, Jennifer Le Moyne, Lucy Jasmine, Laura Van Voren first, second and third. Anything, do you wanna go into detail about any of these particular races? Like maybe starting with Germain, walking through any interesting points of the race, anything he relayed about the competition?

Katie (46:31.365)
So, thank you.

Finn (46:41.25)
critical points in the race where he made moves to win, stuff like that.

Katie (46:46.226)
Yeah, I think the biggest takeaway from this race, well two things, is like the these times are super fast compared, if you look at past versions of the race. In 2021 I think it was the course was not the same, it was shortened for COVID reasons. There was, they couldn't like go to Switzerland and all this, but anyway if you look at the other results

from other years like back, so Jarmol and I both did it in 2019 and the years before that also. The times this year were like an hour faster than the winning time. No, Jarmol's time was an hour faster than his third place time from 2019, but I think he was, they were all like under the winning time from 2019, which was Avi Etavnard, and it was slightly longer this year. There was a few little extra climbs.

like little extra pieces on top of the climbs. So thinking that it's slightly longer and they were that much faster, I think it just shows how fast this sport is evolving, especially because the two French guys behind him, Ouro and Louisan, I actually, yeah, I don't actually know if I'm pronouncing his name correctly, they're quite young. Like I think that was Louisan's like first ultra.

Um, yeah. And Ugo has a little bit more ultra experience, but not that much. Uh, he won the 100 mile at Nice by UTMB last year, but otherwise he doesn't have that much ultra experience. And they were very close to Jarmol, and I think Jarmol was mostly impressed just like at how strong they were, and the fact that they could like pull off such a great performance in one of their first ultras.

and considering the time in general, and compared to other years, you know, in any other year, either one of them would have won.

Finn (48:50.09)
Yeah, that's wild to me that they took an hour off that 2019 time, for example. And especially when you think about the winner of that men's race, Avié Tevinard, who is an absolute legend. I suppose, you know, a 90 K race is different from a hundred mile race and he has different skillsets, but that's still very impressive to me.

Katie (49:11.259)
Yeah, I...yeah, I couldn't really believe it when I saw the time of the finishing chime, just knowing the race from the other year. So yeah, I was...yeah, I was thinking, oh, they cut out a climb somewhere or something, but actually no. I will...the only disclaimer is that it was 100 degrees in Chamonix in 2019, so you can like add some fluff time there for that.

Finn (49:20.517)
And a longer course.

Katie (49:35.47)
But the way that Jarmol described it is actually, he felt that the race was kind of in slower conditions, because there was a lot of snow at the beginning, that he said slowed down the race. He did his first climb a lot slower than the same climb in 2019, and then the rest he did way faster. So the beginning was slower, but then it wasn't 100 degrees after. So give or take.

Finn (50:08.91)
Let's talk just a bit about the women's race too before we get on to our final topic, which is hard rock. Anything you want to say about the podium, Jennifer, Lucy or Laura?

Katie (50:20.029)
I don't know Jennifer, so I yeah unfortunately can't comment on that. She must be really strong. I actually didn't even like look up her.

name yet. I know Lucy, Lucy's had some, she has quite a bit of experience in the sport. She also had a top 10 at UTMB in 2021. She's a lieutenant in the French army. She used to be on the, she used to always be on the French team but hasn't been in quite a few years. But yeah, she, oh yeah, she was also third at the Mute in the spring, so she's had a good spring. And...

So yeah, I imagine Jennifer is quite strong if she was finishing in front of Lucy. But yeah, she should, she would be someone to watch. I don't know what the rest of her schedule is looking like for this year.

Finn (51:19.31)
final topic here, the Hard Rock 100. And there's a lot we could say about this race. But for the sake of this episode, we can just talk about a few of the European runners that are towing the line. I know we had some back and forth on Instagram about some of the content we were seeing from runners like Arille, which we can get into in detail. I had a good laugh there. But the first person that I want to talk about is Claire Banworth. I was just going through her results just in 2023 alone. I have to read this off to you.

She did a 275 kilometer race in February, first place, a 320 kilometer race in March, first place, the winter spine race in the UK, first place, seventh place at the 2023 trans grand Canaria. So, you know, I'm sure there's a bit of a caveat, like, you know, not all these races are delivering the highest level of competition, but just the fact that she can put together that.

much volume in the first half of 2023 and be pretty consistent is amazing to me. And that's all before Hard Rock this year. She's also pretty funny on Instagram. Like I, there's this post that she made maybe a day or two ago. It's this like rabbit. It's, it's a rabbit. Like you have to, I'll, I'll send you the link. It's a rabbit and it's like kind of looking fierce and it's in the description is on my way to the U S the burgers are waiting for me. So she's got some humor too. Um, anything you want to add about Claire and

Katie (52:45.725)
Yeah.

Finn (52:47.006)
I guess the question I have is like, is she ready for this race? Like, is she, is she burnt out yet? I want to know if she's burnt out yet. Cause she's just been prolific.

Katie (52:56.139)
Yeah, I mean I've heard her name before because she's sort of, I would describe her as like a consumer of ultras. She does a lot of races and yeah, I like Power Tour, like if she, that's something she, I think she just really likes doing different races and likes trying new challenges and she definitely does a lot of them.

So she... and she's... I forget how old is she, I don't know if you had her age, but I think she's... but she's been around a little while. She definitely has a lot of experience, so that's not something she'll be lacking. And yeah, I think... oh okay. But yeah, she's done pretty well at like some of the super long stuff. That seems to be something that suits her pretty well.

Finn (53:41.506)
34.

Katie (53:53.306)
So yeah, we'll see for Hard Rock. I don't know. I think a lot of Hard Rock is gonna depend on how well adjusted people are to the altitude. So I didn't see if she had spent time at altitude or was using a tent at home or something. So yeah, I think that could probably play out to how she'll hold up. But she's definitely pretty durable over longer distances. So that shouldn't be an issue.

Finn (54:18.934)
Got to add two more points. So in May, she did Ultra Trail Snowdonia. So that was the 165K race, got third place there. And a week after Hard Rock, she's lining up for the Tahoe 200. So adding more to her legend, she's just incredibly prolific, that's wild.

Katie (54:36.485)
She's trying to get the most out of her plane tickets to the US, I guess.

Finn (54:45.25)
Do you think, and I think maybe the central question for me as we talk about Claire and An-Li's and Annie Hughes, other folks in the races, can any of these runners challenge Courtney and is Courtney vulnerable because of this quick turnaround from Western states? Like, do you see Claire as a contender in this race? Like, what are your thoughts there?

Katie (55:08.475)
I mean personally I think the top contender would be Enlis. Enlis has already raced Courtney at Diagonal DeFoo last year and Courtney had an absolutely phenomenal day there, which I wish I could say is like, you know, unique, but you know, that's standard for Courtney. So.

Yeah, I think Enlis probably has, will probably be the closest to her. I mean, knowing, for me it's, the altitude is really gonna be a thing. And we just do not have these altitudes in France where you can go like run during the year. Enlis has been in the area for a few weeks now, and she was trying to do a little bit of staying around 2,000 meters before leaving, but...

I mean Courtney lives at 3,000 the whole year, so that's just like a huge, huge advantage just to start out with, plus she's Courtney. Yeah, I mean I'm not feeling so hot after Western States right now, but yeah, that's me, so we'll see. I guess it...

Finn (56:17.806)
I was gonna ask, could you see yourself lining up for hard rock?

Katie (56:21.882)
No, absolutely not. But I also don't have as much experience in the sport as Courtney, so maybe it's something that changes. I would say the 12-hour flight and 9-hour time zone change didn't help my situation, so maybe I would feel a little bit better if I was still there.

Finn (56:46.862)
But yeah, Anli's, you mentioned it second place at last year's Diagonal Defu has the speed record, the current speed record on the GR 20 and then spent three weeks in the San Juans in the lead up to this race. And I think, you know, going back to the top of our conversation, the increasing frequency of both American athletes and European athletes heading over to the very specific race domains to prepare well ahead of time.

I'm optimistic just given how much time she spent on the course that If she could be in for a great day You and you could see her as a contender in this race like, you know going for the win

Katie (57:28.962)
I think it's always hard when Courtney's on a start line. It's hard to bet against her, but if anyone is gonna give her any push from behind, it's gonna be Enlis, and maybe they'll be running together, but at the beginning I have no idea. But yeah, for sure Enlis has committed quite a bit to this race. She and her husband, who's the coach of the French team, and their

her stepson and her son are Are there in Colorado she has from based on what I saw in Strava She has friends from the Scott team who are there who I imagine are gonna help with aid stations and pacing her And maybe some child care if her husband's gonna pace her a little bit So it seems like she's got a good team around her which is great And she's definitely been training for it like I saw she was in Valdez air which is at 2,000 meters She was there for

know, four days before leaving. So she's definitely had it in her head how she wants to prepare as best as she can. So yeah, I think she'll be able to put out a good day. I mean, yeah, I have some confidence in her. I think she's, I think she's gonna have a good day.

Finn (58:45.802)
On the men's side, a couple names to highlight. Benat, Marisol, Aurelien, Dunand, Palaz, and Javier Dominguez. Where do you wanna start there? Who should we talk about first?

Katie (58:59.635)
I want to start with Javier because he, so Javier has, I was really excited when I saw his name on the list. I didn't even know he was going to be there because he has almost no social media. And by almost no I mean he has no social media. So he, the reason I know him quite well is because he and Jamal ran...

They finished UTMB together in 2019. They ran the last 100 kilometers of the race together and tied for ninth. So I am like very familiar with him because, yeah, because of that story. But he's Basque, he's Basque, so he's from the region where Zegama is. So also the same region as Maite Meora, who we talked about last time. So same region, he has a ton of results. He's been in the sport forever.

I just listened to an interview with him on a Spanish TV network, which I had auto-translated into English, I don't speak Spanish. But he was talking a lot about what a huge financial investment it is to go to this race, but that it's something he's always dreamed of and it's something that he felt was worth this investment. And yeah, I think that kind of goes back to that point of like...

much of an investment it is for these athletes to go to a place like Silverton, you know, and which isn't... you can't get like a small apartment rental in Silverton, Colorado, you know, you gotta... there's a lot of investment to be made there. So seeing him come from Basque country, he... the last time I met him he spoke zero English, so I don't know if he's gonna be traveling with someone to help him, or maybe he...

speaks more English now, I'm not sure. But he's a he's a really great, great guy. And I'll definitely be cheering for him. I mean, he's my fan favorite.

Finn (01:00:55.342)
Awesome insights. Yeah, and if we if the link to that interview is on the interwebs We can add it to the show notes and people can either translate it or if we have any Spanish speakers in the audience, they can just watch it straight up, but that's super cool. And yeah Further emphasizing the commitment to get over here and to take care of the logistics and stuff. That's super impressive How about uh, orillian?

Maybe we should talk about this Instagram video that you sent me earlier today because I was cracking up.

Katie (01:01:28.672)
Yeah, so Orléans, so Orléans is from really close to Annecy, so a lot of people know Annecy. And yeah, he's had some really fantastic results over the last few years. He was second at UTMB behind Francois in 2019? No, 2021.

He was second at UTMB behind Francois. Yeah, he does quite a bit of skiing in the winter. He does tend to, he's faced some like reasonably serious injuries on and off. So that's kind of, if you see any holes in his results, that's what that's from. Yeah, he was supposed to do diagonal defu last year and had to not start because of a hip injury.

and he was supposed to be at Hard Rock last year but his wife was pregnant and he had a son like at this time last year so his son is now one year old. So that's exciting he's coming here as a new dad and he has been yeah I've been following his training on Strava just to see like what he's been up to. He's been doing quite a bit of

biking at home because he's been using an altitude tent and like a hypoxic mask on the home trainer. So he's definitely like also kind of going all in for this, like making sure he's ready for the altitude. I think he just got to Silverton like a few days ago. Not sure, maybe a week ago. But he said he was in the, I think he was sleeping in his altitude tent for like five weeks.

So hopefully that gives him like a head start on being more used to it. But yeah, so the video that I sent you, which I actually have to give credit to Jermall because he pointed out to me, because I often don't listen to like Instagram stories with the sound on, but he was like, oh, you have to watch Arlen's stories, like it's super funny. So he's filming, I guess in the middle of his recon run, he came across Arlen Glick, who I think is from Ohio. Is that correct?

Finn (01:03:28.59)
Okay.

Finn (01:03:32.694)
I'm sorry.

Finn (01:03:45.779)
Yeah, yeah, wow.

Katie (01:03:46.642)
So yeah, so maybe not, not as mountainous as Anne of Seyfranc. And Orléans is filming him trying to go down this like snow slope and he looks at the cameras and he says in French like, well the Americans aren't that comfortable in the snow it looks like. And Arlen is like really struggling to find some grip in the snow which is just yeah it's just a funny video. Um so.

He'll definitely have an advantage in the snow. That won't be an issue for him.

Finn (01:04:23.114)
more things about Aurelion that I want to point out. And this is actually maybe can be extended to a lot of the athletes in this field. But like if you go to the UTMB index page for Aurelion, he doesn't just have sponsors, he also represents a club. So his club is Courchevel Sport Outdoor. And that's not really something that we have here in the US. I don't mean to put you on the spot, but can you speak to that at all? Like the distinction between

representing a club and then having sponsors like he runs for Scarpa and compressed sport but also has this club affiliation.

Katie (01:04:56.885)
I'm not sure, so there could be two things here. Either he's sponsored by Courchevel, which is a ski resort, which is not that uncommon. I'm sponsored by a ski resort also. So a lot of athletes who like live close to or in ski resorts have some type of partnership with the resort. Will they're like...

help them develop their trail running or just be present at whatever the local race is. Yeah and that can vary maybe. You also see athletes who maybe don't live where the resort is but are sponsored by the resort and then we'll do like a couple training camps in the resort and tag them you know while they're at the training camp in the resort we'll give them like an apartment for those weeks that they come. So it could be something like that. I'm not... I think he is sponsored by Courchevel if I'm remembering correctly but...

It can also be in France to have... there's... yeah to run in a lot of events you have to be licensed at a club, and this is true in skiing also, so you have to take a... it's called taking a running license. Like I am part of the club in Nice and that's where my license is based, and that like provides your insurance for racing.

So like when I sign up for UTMB, for example, I don't upload a medical certificate. I just reference my French license number, which is related to my club. And that has all my insurance related to it already. So I don't think Courchevel is an athletic club. So I think that he's sponsored by them, or it could also be his Schemo club, because then you need a different club for Schemo. So like I have a different club for Schemo, but this is how the French system works.

Finn (01:06:19.502)
Gotcha.

Finn (01:06:41.77)
I don't mean to go too far off on a tangent. I just find this so fascinating. So you can be sponsored by a ski resort. Like that'd be like, so I'm here in Salt Lake City. I know you're familiar with the area. That'd be like getting in contact with Snowbird or Alta or Brighton or Solitude and somehow working out a way to work together. That's so cool.

Katie (01:07:02.518)
Yeah, it's exactly, it's that, it's the ski resort sponsoring you. And I think where it comes from, like, yeah, it really comes from skiing and snow sports. You'll see if you watch like the World Cup skiing, you know, they all, not everyone, but a lot of people have like a resort across their helmet or somewhere printed on them. And yeah, it gives TV visibility to the resort. And they saw that it could all, once the resort saw that you, that

resort is still profitable in the summer, that you can still get quite a bit of tourism from people coming for mountain biking or hiking or yeah now trail running. They see that it is important to have like a presence in trail running. But yeah there's quite a few French athletes who are sponsored by resorts and you see it more in schema. But I just saw Lucie Gerouin who's a

French runner. She's she just announced a partnership with It's a resort called the three valleys in French So yeah, you see that

Finn (01:08:12.686)
super cool. Well, to say what to say one more thing about the hard rock conditions and building off that video that Orlean got of Arlen, I pulled up Dylan Bowman's Strava and Dylan is running hard rock this coming weekend. And he did a run from ice lakes to tell a ride on the course and he in the description, he said, hyper sketchy, snowy, exhausting conditions, borderline dangerous, hard rock is going to be crazy hard this year. So

Gosh, it just makes me wonder like these people that are just, is this going to be less a race of fitness and mountain ability and more just like who is the most daring and comfortable on snow and ice and yeah, just this type of terrain. It's going to be wild.

Katie (01:09:04.668)
Yeah, I think it's funny because this is, I should attribute all of this to Charmell, he should really be taking my place. He said that he showed me the same thing this morning. He's like, look, Dylan's like freaking out and Orléans like taking, you know, stories making fun of Americans. So yeah, I think that's two sides of the same story. I will say that like, for example, at Western States, I personally found the snow to be

not a big deal at all, like had zero issue, didn't think it lasted that long, like really have nothing to say about the snow. And then I've heard other people saying that it was like totally crazy, just really threw off their race, and I'm like, oh okay, well maybe... like I think there's a point where like I don't realize that I'm as comfortable in something in the snow than I am.

and maybe that's something the same with Orléans. He's just like, I don't even understand how they can like think that this is crazy because this is normal. So yeah, everyone has their own gauge, right, of like what they're used to. Yeah, and just what they're used to running in. I mean, I don't particularly run in the snow, but I think just being a confident like technical runner, which Orléans is, that will definitely like play to his favor, even if

it's not the snow that he's used to just, you know, being able to deal with different conditions and different surfaces. I mean I'll quickly say like Benyat

Finn (01:10:38.646)
Well, this has been an awesome conversation, Katie. Always great to chat. Any, any final thoughts on the hard rock race, any of the athletes in it, or just any other upcoming races we should, uh, briefly touch on before, before departing here.

Katie (01:10:57.25)
Marmy Sol, he's definitely like on the list for a win there. He arrived in Silverton at the beginning of June, so I think he got there the earliest of...he definitely got there the earliest of all the Europeans we covered, so he's got a good shot. As I said, I think the altitude is gonna be a major player, especially because we just do not have those elevations here.

and yeah he had some really strong results last year. He's also from the Basque region close to Javier but on the French side. So yeah there's, it'll be interesting to see how the men's race plays out and how Anne-Lise likes the U.S. I'll be interested to talk to her when she gets back.

Finn (01:11:45.09)
There will be a live stream too, by the way. So AeroVipa running is putting on the live stream for Hard Rock this year. We'll link to it in the show notes if you wanna get a live footage of what's happening out on the course, maybe capturing some of the conditions we're describing here that will be available. We'll link to it. I think the one last thing I'll say, cause we are recording this right in the middle of the Valderran by UTMB Race Festival, which you have experienced with Katie.

This is interesting. So the 55 K just happened in the Spaniards swept the podium on both sides in the 55 K. So Spaniards sweep on the men's side, Spaniard sweep on the women's side. That's impressive to me, especially when we were just talking about the trail world championships and there was a bit more, uh, diversity in, in the standings, um, that's, that's very impressive. I don't know if that's just a race that's typically well represented by that country, but that stands out to me.

Katie (01:12:42.722)
Yeah, it's a newer race actually, so I think it's only a few years old. But yeah, it's in Spain, so that obviously is like a huge part of that. It's easier for Spaniards to get there than anyone else. Yeah, but yeah, it's a quite, it's very technical actually, it's quite a technical course, so I think it just plays to...

to some of those Spanish runners. I guess there was a lot of the French runners who would maybe do a 50K were for sure at the Marathon du Mont Blanc, I guess two weeks ago now. So yeah, I think it just plays to like who was where, at what time. But the 100K, I think.