Dakota Jones | 2023 Western States 100 Pre-Race Interview

Welcome back, or welcome to, the single track podcast. I'm your host, finn Melanson, and in this episode, we're joined by Dakota Jones ahead of the 2023 Western States 100. Before we get started, though, this episode is brought to you by Hoka Rabbit Morton and Features. Head to the show notes page of this episode for discount codes and new product releases from each of these four sponsors. With that, let's get started. Dakota Jones, it's an absolute pleasure to have you back on the single track podcast, and we're live here in Olympic Valley to thanks a lot for having me, guys.

It's good to be here.

So you made it here, you biked 650 plus miles from the Great Salt Lake City here in Olympic Valley. Any interesting war stories or highlights from the trip?

I wish there were more like great stories. Honestly, it went great. Everything went well, Like. I didn't even get a flat tire. So I don't really have any like great war stories, but it was an amazing trip. I rode my bike from my house in Salt Lake City to the start line at Western States And I mean it's amazing.

Door to door. How long did that end up taking?

I did it in seven days. Yeah, like 650 miles. 650 miles, it was like I could break it up in a variety of ways. In the past, on bike tours I get really competitive. I'm like, how far can I go every day? But I didn't want to totally blow myself up before Western States. That said, across the Great Basin in Nevada there's like some big sections without services And I like I had to kind of set up my day rides so that I could like get from place to place and get food and water. So yeah, the longest day was like 150 miles but the shortest day was like 50.

So that's awesome.

We've seen a couple athletes in the sport do pretty big bike endeavors before race like Rob Crower comes to mind before Leadville in 2018. I still think you have to have a pretty big Y to pull this off. So what was the rationale for doing this big bike ride before, right before Western States?

Yeah, i mean it was kind of like a spectacle in a way, because I run this nonprofit footprints, which is all about like addressing climate change through outdoor sports, and so we're doing a fundraiser for that right now. So we're trying to raise $20,000 to support a position where somebody would be basically following up with our campus projects and like helping them become like leaders for climate change in their communities year round, and so in order to try to raise awareness about this fundraiser, get people more involved in the organization, I thought I'd do this big sort of gesture, like look at me, i'm riding my bike from my house to the star line of this race.

And when you think about the impact that you want to have on people, i'm sure it's like across the spectrum, like even like the smallest actions count. But do you envision a world, like years from now, where the parking lots at sort of ultras are like kind of emptying all bikes or like what are you anticipating from all this?

That would be a really cool outcome from this, but that is actually not what we're going for, because, you know, like I was able to take a week off of whatever I do in my daily life in order to ride my bike to the race, but it's not super reasonable for everybody to do that If you have a wife, if you have kids, or a husband and kids or a job. You know, it's like it's just something that I was able to do because I have a lot of privilege in my life And so, really, like, the reason I did this was to raise money for footprints And at footprints, we're like helping people address climate change in their communities through projects that empower them with the skills and connections they already have.

Yeah.

So really it's like what I success for me here with this kind of thing would be seeing people feel capable of addressing climate change and like coming up with ways to address climate change at the community level.

I feel like this is deserving of a full podcast in and of itself, but we'll make sure to link to the organization and the show, and so are there any like immediate calls to action yet for listeners or viewers who are just hearing about this for the first time?

Yeah, I would really love for people to get involved and like, donate to footprints and follow us and contribute to the actions that we're taking. So at footprints we're trying to, like I said, we're raising money for this position And we put on these running camps one in the US this year to in Australia, where we're developing more for the US and Europe next year, And it's basically we want to get people who we want to help runners feel capable of taking action on climate change. And so come to our website, runfootprintsorg, get involved. Like on Instagram, we have all kinds of activations going on. We're footprints running there And, yeah, like, I think that we can really do a lot if we all work together.

I'm sure I know Brett has a bunch of X's and O's questions about Western states. I have one more question. I feel like there have been various eras where a certain city was like the trail running hub And I got super excited when I learned that last volume of Salt Lake City, because I want Salt Lake City to become the next place. Talk about the role that Salt Lake has played in training for this race. Maybe it hasn't because our winter's been so brutal, but talk about what it's been like adjusting to the training, the opportunities, all that kind of stuff.

I mean, salt Lake is an amazing place to train because you can have like a real job in the city. There's like every like amenity that a big city offers right there. But I can also drive five minutes from my house to a 3,300 foot climb on Grandeur Peak And that's like the closest one. There's many, many others, like the trail access and the vertical and just like the alpine feel of mountains that we all look for is it's like right there above this city. It's a really unique place for that. There's a really strong community there and I feel like in terms of like big city access to real mountains in the United States, the only other city I can think of that's comparable is maybe Anchorage, you know, and that's a ways out of that's a deep cut, you know. So yeah, I've just been really impressed with Salt Lake. It's also like I grew up in southern Utah. My sister, like, went to the U University of Utah and like lived in Salt Lake. My ton of my friends went to the? U. So for me going back to Salt Lake was like going to a place where I feel comfortable. I spent a lot of time and I have a lot of good friends.

So, dakota, you've been in the sport for quite a long time. This is your first western states. Yeah, was that? was that all part of the plan, or has there ever been a plan? How's that journey to western states been?

You know, if I look back on my career, like I think one regret is that I didn't plan, like I really wish that if, when I was like 20 years old, i'd been like okay, i want to run these races, and like created like a multi-year plan to do that. It's not something that I ever did and so I kind of let things just come at me. And that's, i think, a result of me being excited about everything all the time and so I was like trying to do everything all the time and that often ended up with me getting like kind of over, over trained or injured a lot of the time. But yeah, western states is something that I always wanted to do. I knew I always wanted to come run it, but for whatever reason, again without a plan, i was like always doing some other races, some other places. But yeah, over the last few years I was thinking like you know, i'm in my 30s now at some point I'm going to be too old to compete and I, before that happens, i want to give western states a good shot.

I mean one thing that sticks out to me, based off the point you just made you have had a lot of at bats at the 100 mile distance and you really only just nailed it last year with hard rock and javelina. Talk about how you managed to keep the faith over your current distance and what ended up being like the differentiating factors.

That's a lot to unpack. When I got into ultra running because of hard rock and I was like I was living in southwest Colorado, i volunteered to hard rock and I was like this everything about this, these mountains, these people, this community that's what I want to be a part of and I ever since then, like hard rock, has been kind of this, like north star for the style that I want to embody in trail running, and so immediately I wanted to do hard rock and so when I was 19, i ran the bear 100 to qualify and just like survived it. I ran my first hard rock in 2011 and I got second, but I felt like absolutely terrible. I didn't feel like I did a great job, which again, on paper, it looks like I'm full of shit there, but like it didn't. I didn't feel like I'd done what I was capable of. The next year I came back and did a little better. I ran faster, i felt like I was more in control. But you know, hard rocks may be not the best 100 mile race to start with, basically just because it's so hard and you're out there for so much longer than others. And then in 2014 I dropped out of both UTMB and hard rock, and also in 2011, i think, i dropped out of UTMB. So at that point I was like 50% of 100 mile finishes and I just never felt like I knew how to do that distance. I'd get to like 60 miles or more, or 60-70 miles and just completely crater and, like everybody says, you have ups and downs and I feel like I'd hit like a down and just continual spiraling down. And after UTMB in 2014 I was like man, i gotta take a break like this clearly isn't working. I think I need more time and like experience to do this well, and so I set out. I was like I'm gonna take at least five years off of 100 mile races and just do like 100k or less or something, and then I didn't actually try another 100 until 2020, so that was like six years. I guess that was the I'm Tough 100 and I went out. I felt like, because it was 2020, i hadn't trained. I mean, i'd trained a ton, but I hadn't like focused training. I just like literally like there's no races going on, and so I just like was out in the mountains. I was living in Montana. I was just like exploring a new mountain range every weekend and, sort of on accident, i was just super fit and I went out and I ran really conservatively, on purpose and I felt like I was totally in control for 100 miles and after the I'm Tough. That year I was like man, i think I can do this, i know how to do this. And a year later I went to run, run, run, rabbit run, and I just put on my first camp at footprints and I had broken my hand and I was super underprepared and I fully blew up and had a terrible race and walked it in in 24 hours and totally did not capitalize on what I learned the year before. But then, since you wanted a super long answer to this, this is great this is gold.

This is gold yeah okay, cool.

Then in 2022, i was like okay, if I plan ahead better, if I like don't overdo it with, like, my other schedule, if I don't break any bonds, like I can be ready for these races. And I got back into hard rock, was really excited about that And I focused on hard rock and that went really well for me And it was really fun. Like you know, at this point, like I feel like I can still run better at hard rock. There's always some marginal improvement, but I feel like I ran like within like 95% or something of what I'm capable of at hard rock And that felt good, because before it was a lot lower. And then after that, I was like, okay, well, i wanna run Western States now, and the only way to do that is like, since I'm not gonna get in and out the lottery, i have to try to win my way in And racing in like Black Canyon or Canyon's, like it's just too fast, too long and too early in the season for me. And so Havilena made sense And I went out and gave Havilena a shot And, to my surprise, i had a fantastic day and I won And I got my golden ticket. And now here we are, western States.

Do you feel like the training for hard rock and then the training for Havilena is gonna blend nicely into?

I hope so Western.

States, because this course kind of falls a little bit in between the both of those.

Yeah, i mean at this point that was a year ago, right? So I mean that exact training probably. I don't know how training really works but, what I did last June or May or whatever probably doesn't like remain in a super specific way, but I do think that over time you train a lot over years. You get good at what you do, you gain endurance, you gain fitness and strength, you gain resilience. I think that's one thing that's helped me stay injury free over the last few years, and so I think, more than anything it kind of showed me about what kind of training to do, like I knew I know what to do for hard rock and what to do for Havilena, i think, because those races worked pretty well.

They went well.

And I honestly, like you say, I think Western States is sort of a blend of the two, And so I tried to mimic that in my training.

I just wanna ask you one more lifestyle question before we get more into states. I associate you with being a part of that first wave of athletes that A got a coach and B really like took this full time at one point in your life And, from what I understand, you've kind of overhauled all of that. So talk about, like how you think about being either a pro in this sport at this point or just an elite runner in general. Like how has that changed from like 2015 to 2023?

I mean, being a pro in this sport is a lot less like uncommon, a lot more common than it used to be right, Like a lot of people have coaches. A lot of people are like able to make a living off of this. I just really, I think when I do something, i do it either like 100% or not at all. I think a lot of us are probably like that, you know, and so I just really wanted to be the best runner that I could be, and so I got a coach. I started working with Jason Koop in, i think, 2012. I worked with him for like six or seven years, a long time And to this day, it's not like I stopped working with Koop. He's still a good friend of mine and a mentor. It's just that, like when I, like you say I kind of overhauled this, i like went back to school for a long time and I started focusing on some things beyond just running I was, i felt like I just didn't need to like take his time anymore because I wasn't quite focused on it the way I had been. But everything I do for training is still basically what Koop used to give me the same kind of general outline.

You're still as serious about the sport as you were eight years ago.

Yeah, i think so. I mean, i don't think I'm as serious about competition as I used to be, and I think that's made me a lot better at competition.

That's interesting, is that?

why? Yeah, it's like what you might expect, right, like when competitions all you have and it's like all you're focused on it's you could show up to a competition. It's a big deal. You screw it up and it's like you gotta wait several more months to try again. Like it's really stressful. And for me, it's like I've tried to build a whole sort of I don't know attitude, outlook around the sport that encompasses so much more than just competition, because I would struggle to fall asleep before a race. I'd be stressed about getting the right workouts, i'd be stressed about if I didn't sleep enough or eat right or something, and it just made me unhappy. I didn't like that. I like sitting on a couch with my friends and hanging out having a beer sometimes, i don't know. I like having fun And you take something too seriously. It's no longer fun And I'd rather not make money and have more fun. If I had to choose between those two.

I think a lot of people in the audience are saying amen right now, and I think it's something that a lot of people need to hear that too.

I think the sport of running comes off as like far too serious at times.

Yeah, I think trail running is like better than most disciplines of running, we have a lot more fun. We're getting a little more serious, which can be good and bad. But Yeah, I want us always to have fun and, like you know, whatever happens at Western States this weekend, I think I can do well. I'm going to try my best, But if I have a bad day and blow up, I'm going to like jog it in. Unless I'm hurt, I'm going to walk it in or jog it in, like I'm out there because there's like so many people here for this event that we like build so much excitement around, like this whole, the stories around it, the history, all the people like the community. This is a fantastic event. It's representative of what we love so much about the sport And that's what I want to celebrate. You know, if I also have a fantastic race, that's really cool. But you never know.

Yeah, that's just icing on the cake for sure, Diving into, I guess, the day of Western States We were talking about a little earlier. Like I see you as one of the early adopters of the hyperfast aid station transition. Like I remember when I was first getting into the sport, seeing you running through the lakes and omates stations, like checking a pack, grabbing a new one, never, you know, slowing your stride at all.

Water watershed. Moment of aid station efficiency.

Yeah, i mean yeah, i was like Dakota's wearing packs, everyone else is going handhelds. I was always just kind of curious like have you always thought about you know those just being efficient all the way through a race? And like how does that play into you know a longer 100 mile like Western States, versus even a shorter one? Are you still going to try and be like pretty quick through all the aid stations?

Yes, absolutely I'm not going to like be switching out packs at Western States. I'll use the same one from start to finish, But the faster I am through an aid station the better. I always want to do that. I think that for me, like, basically, my goal is like I don't need to go fast, especially for 100 miles. That's a long way. I don't actually ever need to go fast, i just need to not stop, I need to be consistent. So, like consistency is my main thing And so like stopping at an aid station and messing around eating food, drinking water, that can work, but I feel like then you kind of have to compensate for that lost, lost time, that that time spent there by going a little faster. I'd rather basically try to eat and drink more on the go. That said, at a race like this, i will like come into the main aid stations and like drink a bunch of water and like take the bottles to go. But I mean, if I can be in and out of an aid station in less than a minute, then I'm psyched, yeah. And it also like there's a psychological component to that too. You're running with someone and they stop at the aid station. You don't. All of a sudden, you're out of sight, yeah it's fantastic, You know it helps. It's a big deal.

Yeah, because then it feels like you just gained something for, like, not having to do anything extra Yeah. When you approach you know a race like this like Western states, in terms of like you know your game plan out there. Are you thinking of any particular splits or times to the aid station, or is it just more like effort based? This is where I'd like to be in terms of how I feel through various points. What does you know what does like race day strategy look like for you now that you've been in this for a while?

You know, i'm really like not quantitative in the way I race or run that much. I will wear watch and stuff And I like I will have a sense of splits, i think. But for the most part when I'm racing I want to. I'm like aware of where everybody else is, sometimes way too much. But you know, i'm like keeping track more or less over all of my position in the race And then just trying to manage my own intensity levels. So basically, i Think what I always say is like I know how hard I can run a hundred miles. Yeah, even this is a different race. So it's like I don't know exactly right, but it's like I know I can do this, the distance And I have an idea of like how hard I can do that. And I always go like some 10, 15 percent harder than that in a race. Yeah, that's what racing is, you know. It's like can I hang on? I don't know, we're gonna hope, but like I don't want to go 30 or 40 percent beyond, like what I'm what I know I can do, like I have to maintain it within some limits And if somebody's blasting off the front I'm gonna have to let them go and Hopefully I have like the wherewithal to do that. I think that's where experience comes in.

I was gonna say have you gotten better at estimating that, that tipping point?

Yeah, i think so over time. Yeah, i definitely have gotten better at estimating that. I've also gotten more confident in like being able to take more risks. I think, like you said, i've done more hundreds and I figured out the distance a little more. This one is a bit, i mean, everyone's different right, but yeah, i think I've gotten better at doing that's. There's also like the the opposite end of that. It's like if, like I just said, maybe it's it's hard to let somebody go off the front if you're trying to run at your own.

It's just gonna ask you about that.

But it's also hard if you feel great and you're the guy off the front. Like this is having me multiple times where I'm like trying to run my own race and I'm like slow, I feel like I'm going too slow with other people and I end up way off the front And then I feel like I'm the one who's being aggressive and like intense and I Don't know like I would sit here in this interview and I would say there's no way I'm gonna be off the front 15 miles into Western states. But sometimes that happens and I'm like Oh, here we go. What is this a bad idea? I don't know.

Like Yeah, I guess that's the mystery of race. Yeah, exactly.

I was just gonna ask if you feel more on the spectrum of like race your own race versus My day is gonna be dictated by the conditions, the competitors, all that kind of stuff.

I definitely try to race my own race, but my own race is dictated by the, the conditions, for sure. So, like Western states here, like there's a ton of snow in our high country Yeah, we heard some you're not gonna do like a 2017 Walmsley, like fight the escarpment, fight the high country. Yeah, i hope not. I'd like to you know again sitting here in this interview on that on Tuesday or Monday, whenever we're gonna like, i'm gonna go easy for the first 30 miles. It's gonna be super chill. I'm not gonna try it all and then it for a. Still I'll push, i don't know, in reality it'll be, i'll be going harder than I want to go. But through the snow especially, i think that you can really waste a lot of energy Because it's like more uneven. You could slip around, you could be like Flexing all these weird muscles You're not used to or don't want to be flexing. You know It's. It can like really add up especially early. So my goal is to just be super chill, to move at a good pace. I think I know how to run in the snow. I think this snow is a lot easier to run in than Utah or Colorado, but I'm just rambling at this point.

We could go through all the scenarios of race day for hours.

What else should we cover?

That was. That was the last question I had. You know, the last day was just a special tradition.

Yes, we have a special tradition. Well, you're the second person, but we're calling it a tradition.

Yeah, it's got to start somewhere. Yeah, this being the first year of kind of this single track, you've been coverage.

Can you? can you get the tradition for us? Oh man, he's got it, he's got it.

We have the official watermelon of Western States. So with the official watermelon of Western States, oh yeah, okay, there's two things that we're having all of our guests. Do you have 15 seconds to try and draw your best cougar?

We're counting down.

Okay and and then you'll sign it. So it's kind of like a like a care-couture-ish Nice watermelon, for I'm gonna try like a 45 year old. Hey, I just a cougar. Take it. This is not the first time you heard that. Take it how you want.

Okay it's your time, we now.

Three, two, one go.

Okay, this is what they look like.

Five, four, three, two, one. Okay, time's up.

Let's go. Yeah, all right, it's what they look like great job on the ears.

That's corn is signed it. Oh no, we're gonna get your signature.

That's the next part.

Awesome. Dakota Jones, we cannot thank you enough for your time, your generosity, your perspective on the sport and we're really excited You're here. Thank you so much.

Yeah, thanks for having me. Yeah, fun to be a part of this.