Allison Baca | 2023 80K World Trail Championship Recap

Welcome back, or welcome to, the Singletrack podcast. I'm your host, finn Malanson, and in this episode we're talking with Allison Baca, an ultra trail runner based in Golden Colorado, who just took sixth overall in top American at the 80K World Trail Championships in Innsbruck, austria, this past week. Allison joins the show to debrief the race as well as to discuss some of her background in the sport. Before we get started, though, this episode is brought to you by Rabbit Features and Morton. Use code SINGLETRACK20 for trail apparel on the Rabbit website. Use code SINGLETRACK20 also on the Features website for trail socks, and we have more details to come on that Morton partnership. With that, let's get started. Allison Baca, it's an absolute pleasure to have you on the Singletrack podcast.

Thank you so much, Finn, for having me.

So first American and sixth overall at the 80K World Trail Championships this past week, you had said on social media prior to your race that your goal would be just a finish and anything else would be a bonus. Was this exceptional of a result on your radar?

I would say, you know, going to the race, i was really excited about racing as part of a team And I was thinking less so about the individual result, same with during the race. So it was, i would say, a surprise And I was just trying to not put any pressure on myself. I mean, the course, if you've seen the profile, it was pretty gnarly. So truly just finishing that race like wasn't accomplishment And I wasn't really sure if it was possible. But I mean, that's kind of why we love ultra running. So yeah, it wasn't necessarily on my radar but I also didn't have too many expectations going into it.

Yeah, to talk more about the course there for a second. You had said in our brief finish line interview that it was, quote, the hardest thing you've ever done. I died so many times but I came back to life each time, end quote. And so I think I do want to get into like the whole, like belief component of being an elite athlete in the sport, but to talk about the course, walk us through a few of those critical points in your race and share any cool experiences where, like, maybe you had to persevere, for example, to get to this result.

Definitely. Yeah, i mean, i guess the race was kind of a little bit different than I had thought And I was trying to make it sound in my mind a little bit less intensity before. I was like I was just like a few long climbs, like you know, a few 14ers, basically like that kind of length of a climb, and it was just so much. It was just like relentless climbs. And yeah, i guess a few important points of the race for me were like the first so we started with a little lollipop loop from Wontown So we climbed about a thousand meters and then descended back into town. It was about like a 10 mile loop And that was like our first supported crew aid station. So I climbed with a lot of our team was together, which was super fun, and we all kind of thought we were in, like you know, 30th, 20th place. It was kind of hard to tell because the men and women started together. And then at the top of the climb, like I really love downhills And I just kind of thought, okay, like I'm not gonna, i don't wanna be breaking a lot on the downhill and kind of like mess up my quads really on, i just kind of like did my thing on the downhill and passing people And like I came into town and I was in first somehow And I was like oh no, i was freaking out. I told the team staff, i was like this is not where I wanna be, like I don't wanna be in this position right now, but at the same time it was a little bit close I never had that in a race And there was like a little camera following me, which was a little bit fun and terrifying. But after that we started like this really long section of it was the majority of the climbing and the race And we weren't gonna see our crew again, which was all like the team USA staff volunteers. We weren't gonna see them again for another like 25K, but I think we had about I don't know 3000 meters of climbing maybe, or 2500 meters of climbing. It was crazy And you know we were all kind of nervous about that section because it's just such a long way to go without, you know, seeing your crew. So there was like one unsupported aid station in between but you know I just grabbed like water or whatever. Anyways, we went up this climb And I thought I knew the aid station was like at the top of the climb. But we started descending And I was like, maybe the aid station's at the bottom of the climb And then we descend, descend, descend. And I was like, okay, surely we're gonna turn right at the bottom, which is like continuing downhill. And then we turned left to go up another like 1000 meter climb And I was like, oh no, and I could see the aid station so far away. I was like, oh my gosh, like I'm out of everything I don't like and we're not even halfway through the race And I'm like dying. I'm like what am I gonna do now? And so, anyways, eventually I made it Just like kept going, plotting along. And yeah, i mean it was just like so many long sections where, like, thank goodness, there were a lot of fans and people around. But I don't know, for me, i probably need to like study the course more to know where I'm at, because I had a few situations like that where I was like wait, there's not supposed to be any more climbing, but like why are we climbing? So I feel like if I had studied the course more, it probably would have been helpful, or maybe it's just better to not even know and just keep going and not worry about it.

But Well, and I think that's a good place to go with this, talk about how you prepared for this race because, in to her credit, we did a preview episode for the ADK Trail Championships And my colleague, co-host Leah Yingling, zeroed in on you. She said watch out for Alison Baca. I've seen a couple long runs in particular that she's done on Strava And I think she is dialed for this race And I don't think she was surprised one bit that you got this result. So I know you had mentioned right there that you were. You might have wished you'd had more homework on the course, but talk about how you prepared for this race.

Wow. Well, first of all, thank you, leah, wouldn't have expected that, but I appreciate that And I just did a lot of climbing really for the race. Like I think maybe you know the time between Lake Sonoma and this race. It was not very long, so, like by the time you recovered from Lake Sonoma we only had about three weeks of you know, kind of higher volume training that we could get in before Worlds three or four, and so I was just mostly focusing on like trying to get in as much vert as I could And I think I was running maybe like 70 or 80 miles a week and trying to get in like five to 6,000 meters of climbing, something like that. So just trying to do all my long runs with just like just up and down climbs and trying to make them as steep as I could, and yeah, so a lot of vert.

Going back to just how your whole race unfolded. there were a couple of moments early in the race where you were right there at the front of the pack, leading, if I wasn't mistaken, or very close to it, and you ultimately ended up finishing sixth overall. And I think this is an interesting topic to go down the rabbit hole on. When you are at that stage of a race, in a world class race, do you have to visualize that type of moment beforehand, like, do you need to believe that this is possible beforehand, or do you feel like you can run your own race and things can just kind of unfold in real time and you can, like trust your fitness? Like, how do you process all of that?

I don't think too much about it, I guess.

Like.

I feel like in these longer ultra races, at some point you just I don't really want to run anymore And like no one wants to and everyone's hurting And like I guess kind of the magic of them is like getting to these low points and then like figuring out how you can make it through or seeing if you're gonna make it through Right. It's kind of like this mystery that is intriguing. I don't know why, but yeah, i mean, for me it's kind of like, okay, how can I problem solve in the middle of this race? Like, yeah, i feel horrible right now and I'm losing time. Everyone's climbing away from me, which doesn't feel great mentally or physically, and I don't know where the top of the climb is and all these things. But like you know, you just keep eating and drinking and forcing calories in and in another two kilometers everything can turn around and you could feel great And it's just kind of like never knowing what's gonna be on the other side, both in terms of how you feel, in terms of the course, mentally. So yeah, i think that part is just like very, very interesting with ultras And I guess, ultimately, like I'm always kind of running my own race, like even if I was I don't know 50th and I felt like I had really given everything. Then that's rewarding to me, yeah, you know. But in terms of preparing for it and visualizing it, there's nothing. I was talking to some of my teammates about this afterward, about how, like there's almost nothing in Colorado or even the US that could replicate some of these climbs, like especially in the spring, like maybe some 14ers could, or something like that. But yeah, it's, it was just impossible to visualize. But also like stunningly beautiful And I'm trying to figure out how I can like move there at this point because it's amazing. But yeah, so I guess I kind of visualize things but like, at the same time, i feel like an Ultras. Nothing goes as like you visualize it. I don't know, at least in my experience, and I also don't really like I don't always like run the courses or anything before, so there's not really much for me to like have in my head of what it's going to look like, besides photos, or like if I've seen some YouTube videos or something.

Is the potential move to Europe and really fully immersing yourself on the Euro circuit a real possibility?

Oh my God, i mean it's like the dream, right. But yeah, work is also important. So I don't know, maybe once I'll be able to work it out, but with the time change, for mine and my husband's jobs, i don't know that it'll happen soon, but we'll see.

All right on And I was watching the men's race. You know Eric Lapuma, drew Holman, zach Miller they finished five, six, seven in the men's race And obviously there was a lot of teamwork at play there. Eric, for example, mentioned and Drew also mentioned being pulled by each other at various points in the race. Did you have any similar experiences, other working with Sarah Kais or Emily Schmitz or Shaquilana, where there were just points in the race where teamwork was being demonstrated and you guys got to feed off each other or anything like that?

Yeah, i mean I think the the one of the coolest parts of the race was on. So from the last aid station supported aid station which was at the base of the last climb, so the last climb was about 1000 meters and then we descended back into Innsbruck to the finish. So it was about a 20K segment from the last support aid station to the finish. And when I was coming out of that aid station I saw Emily coming in. I was like come on, emily, we got to do this. And we were kind of like in contention for third team overall at that point with the against the Italian team. And so the team USA staff told us oh, you can't let any Italians pass you on this climb. And I was just like completely dead. And Emily came up behind me when we started the climb and she just like flew by with her poles And I was like, oh my gosh, okay, i got to like somehow, you know, keep going for the team. And so that was super cool, just to have her around. And then I was able to like I like threw up and then recovered and then was able to like latch on to Audrey from France, who was like climbing right in front of me And I was like, okay, i just got to like look at her feet, do not let her go. I know Emily's up there like pushing hard. So I got to like keep going And we made it to the top. And then I could kind of see Emily and I was like, okay, just like, come on, we got to get the time for the team. And so I eventually made it to Emily And I was like Emily, come on, like let's send this last descend. We got to make up as much time as we can because it's going to be close. And so we just both started like like going. I mean, it felt like we're flying. Honestly, we were probably wearing going that fast because it was like, after you know, a really long race, but it was so fun, like we were trying to go so hard on the descent and just like trying to go and get to the finish line And, yeah, just trying to do it for the team, which was just like it was such a cool feeling. And then to have Emily and I six and seventh was like very cool And, yeah, so awesome for the team.

You've had a multifaceted endurance sports career. Was this the first time you've experienced like teamwork at play in the midst of a race, or is this something you've experienced in other other endurance sports before?

Yeah. So I mean, i ran cross country and high school and college, so obviously that's very similar. But then I'd say, like the most team kind of endurance sport that I've done is cycling. And in cycling I was just, you know, like I was racing on a professional team for two years And yeah, i played like a supportive role, which was super fun because you could just really go as hard as you can and leave it all out there and you don't need to make it to the finish line. So it's actually kind of cool to like find your limit that way, because you're just pushing for one person to make it to the finish line first And you just have to go as long and as hard as you can, like saying the last few kilometers and kind of like wiggle your way up to the front of the group. And yeah, obviously there's a lot of like really interesting skills involved in cycling, which is kind of cool. But that sport is so team oriented because you really can't win a bike race at an international level without a team. So yeah, i did enjoy my time as a cyclist, but it's a lot easier to travel as a runner.

Just on a side note, my partner and I are watching that new Tour de France series right now.

I saw them on Netflix, yes, and you just reminded me that you know.

There's a scene, i think they're talking about the Jumbo Visma team on the tour And there are a couple riders similar to your situation, it sounds like where they're dedicated support crew like you. They have the microphone in their communication with the top riders in the support car. They're going back to the car to get water bottles and energy bars And then they're sprinting back up into the field to get those electrolytes and water and calories to the. It's a thrilling job, it seems like, and there are riders in the tour that appear to dedicate their entire careers to it. So it seems fascinating and pivotal.

Yeah, yeah, so that was what I did.

That is so cool.

Yeah, and it has its own I don't know its own kind of adrenaline. I guess it's fun, it's cool.

I think the last thing I want to talk about on the world's topic before we get into more of your just career prior to all this, we're now going to see the world championships. The ADK world championships take place every two years. I think the next one's going to be in 2025 in Spain. Was this such an exciting experience where you are going to find yourself repeating the qualification process or trying to make future teams from here on out? Or was this sort of like a one and done thing and you have other other races in series on your agenda to focus on?

No, I absolutely want to make another team. I think it's such an honor to represent your country on the international stage, And it was just an incredible event It was. It was amazing to see people from all over the world, like even runners from Ukraine, and you know runners that are countries that had only one runner like. It's just incredible to see all these people coming together and maybe you wouldn't see this, this group of people at like a UTMB or a Western States. You know, it's just the cost of traveling to these races can be prohibitive to a lot of people from other places, And so it's just really special to be on the starting line with people from like really all over the world, And so I would absolutely love to race in Spain. So we'll see. I mean it's hard to make a team.

It felt hard for me at least So well, walk us through the decision process to invest in this year's championships, because it looks like last year you race Western States, you narrowly missed a top 10 spot, which theoretically would have allowed you to return this year, but just based on your ultrasound up and obviously lining up at Lake Sonoma, it looked like you were pretty clear about focusing on getting into world. So talk about just the decision process that led to this race.

Yeah, i mean, i think Western States last year was. It was my first 100 mile race and like about a year after having a baby, which felt like it was going to be fine, but I feel a lot better this year. So maybe just time and more training helps. But I don't know, i don't think I want to go back to Western States. It's not really my. I'm glad I did it once, but I truly love being in the mountains And so I think kind of like more mountainous races are more my style. But yeah, this year I did want to qualify for the world's team And I raised formidable 50 K in March And I was like, Oh, 40 K sounds a lot better than 80 K. I came in fourth out the race and it was top two who qualified for it, so I missed that spot. And then I was like David or my coach is David Roche And so I called David right after the race And I was like David, i don't know, i don't really like racing California. I just feel like it never goes well, especially these, these Western States trails, just always so painful. And he was like, well, just give it a day, like let's think about Lake Sonoma. And I'm glad he convinced me because Lake Sonoma was really a fun race and really well put together, and so, yeah, i ended up racing like Sonoma and finished in second And so I was able to qualify for the team this year. But, yeah, i did almost give up hope after four mid-paw But, thanks to David, i took a week and I was like, ok, i'm ready to do this again, let's go. So, yeah, it was definitely my goal this year to qualify for Worlds.

Is it easy for you to be persuaded back into a position of confidence, Like when you think about restoring hope.

Was that a pretty quick turnaround from formidable I mean I think everyone after a race, after an ultra, is like I don't want to run for a week And then, like two days later, you're looking for the next race. So I think it's just part of the process, really. Like, even after the race after Worlds, I was like David, I'm not running for two weeks And he was like OK, But now I'm like OK, I'm ready to run, like let's go, I'm getting tired of just like not, I mean, we're walking around a ton here in Barcelona, but like yeah, running is different and I love the.

Thing.

So yeah, it just takes some time.

How about the pivot to national class and world class races? Because I was looking at your ultra sign up and you've had a lot of success in these regionally competitive races, a lot of like Arabiapas races, a lot of stuff in the Mountain West and the Southwest And that seems to preoccupy the first four to fiveish years of your career in the sport. Was that all premeditated? Like did you want to put yourself in lower pressure situations before ultimately building up into these higher pressure world championship type races? Talk about that.

I actually started trail running because I moved to Arizona for work and I had been doing triathlon. But when I moved there was not a pool within like two hours of where I was living at the time. So I was like, well, i guess triathlons are done, which was OK, but I just started running for fun. And then, of course, our Vipa it's, you know, the biggest race event company in Arizona. So it was just like a quick drive to Phoenix or Flagstaff from where I was living, and so I just kind of like started hopping in races. I was like, oh, ok, i wonder if I could run a 50 K, i don't know. And so that's kind of how I started getting involved in trail running. And so that was 2018, i think, and then 2018 and then 2019. I did like Silver Rush, i did some races, but it was a lot of like driving to get anywhere. So it's kind of like what was in a drivable distance for me. And then, of course, 2020, we know that pandemic, everything, not really any. Whiteout, yeah, and then I was pregnant, and then here I am in 2021 and 22. And so I would say like I always wanted to be like competing, i guess at a more like national or international level, but it was more of where I was living and like kind of what I had access to at the time and with my work schedule. But yeah, so it feels good to be kind of putting myself out there a little bit more this year and just like I want to see, like I want to compete. That's what I really love about racing. So I want to do that in like whatever field I can with the best runners that I can. So I feel like that that makes you better too. So it's been very fun this year to like really like try to put myself out there, like get in, like be a part of the. You know, not just be running the race, but like be competing in the race, like. That's kind of like what drives me and my favorite part of racing.

So yeah, I think that's a fascinating and awesome mindset because I feel like if we pulled a lot of people in the sport, they would say the more I level up in terms of races and competition, the more I feel insecure and might not even get the best out of myself, like I need to reside and maybe just a lower pressure situation to get the best. But here you are saying I need to level up in order to really like self actualize. That's fascinating.

Yeah, i mean, i can totally see both sides. Like I, of course, it feels amazing when you win races, right, like I want to win races. It's such a cool feeling, but at the same time, like I want to see how good I can be in the end And I feel like by putting myself in bigger competitions and like I learned so much from the race just by being around all these amazing athletes. Like I have like a whole list of bullet points, of things that I told David like okay, these are the things I need to work on now. Like how can I, how can I get like just a little bit better here, or things like that, and I just feel like, yeah, in races where you're surrounded by all these people that I mean truly I've looked up to them for years in running and to be like racing beside them, like what a cool experience, even though, yeah, of course, a ton of them beat me, which is fine, but I don't know. I just love like I love that feeling of competition and I just, yeah, i feel like to improve. You kind of need that and it makes everyone better ultimately.

I don't want to give away too much to your competition, but can you walk us through some of the notes you took, some of the bullet points you were studying and who you were impressed by?

Yeah well, my first bullet point capital letters need to learn how to use polls, because I don't use polls. literally everyone else use polls And I was like, oh my God, i feel like this is a difference maker. I don't know. I, before the race, i was like, oh, i'm going to be fine. Like in, never use polls. I do ton of climbing, and no, this is a different story. Like I need to go figure out this poll situation and learn how to use them. So definitely that. And then let me see what else I write. Oh, go easier on the first climb, that was a little bit too hard, i think. Oh, and add the root to my watch. I talked about this earlier. I didn't know where the climbs were and where the top was, so like I need to add the root on my watch so I can see the elevation profile, cause I feel like that would help me. Other people would probably be fine, but I need that.

And I want to touch on that. I mean, we've almost gotten to this point with technology where if you've loaded the watch onto your race, or if you've loaded the race onto your watch, does that preclude you from getting lost? Like can you totally avoid those disaster scenarios where, like you overshoot Nade Station or some fork in the road and go through mouths in another direction, like that didn't happen to you. But we've seen a lot of elite athletes whose races have crumbled because maybe they didn't use their garment or their chorus to their fullest extent. I think that's a really good point.

Yeah, i mean, i think it's like a technology that's there and we should use it, like if you feel like it's helpful, like definitely. Thankfully, this course was very well marked and there weren't too many like other trails going in different directions, but I am definitely going to use it in the future. I don't necessarily want it for the route, but I happen in a situation where I didn't really know where to go and someone had, like changed the flags of the course And so there were a few of us just standing at an intersection like, okay, which way are we supposed to go now? So yeah, like in that kind of situation it'd be super helpful And, of course, you know we have so much technology that allows it. I remember when I was a cyclist, he used to just like write the kilometers like on a, on the stem of our. We'd like take a little sheet of paper to the top tube or the stem of the bike, would like, okay, this climb is however long, starting at whatever kilometer, and stuff like that like important points of the race. So it's kind of similar, but you can actually just have it on your watch instead of have to write things down that could get wet.

So thank you to sponsor HVMN. HVMN is my choice for exogenous ketones. If you are curious about using exogenous ketones in your training, racing and day to day life, head over to HVMNcom. get a bottle of ketone IQ And if you want a 20% discount in the process, use code single track 20 at checkout for 20% off your next order. I actually I want to talk a bit more about your cycling career. It's kind of like the topic of the moment in my mind after this whole tour de France show on Netflix And I think it's a positive stereotype. But when I think of cyclists, i think of these just extremely measured and in cutting edge athletes who are leaving no stone unturned in nutrition, training, philosophy, mental training, everything I mean across the board. like if trail running is about like feeling and just going out there and kind of living in the moment, it feels like the preparation level of encycling is like. it's like the exact opposite. And so was that you to any extent, or were there any impressionable elements of that culture that you could think of, that you that you carry into your trail running experience?

I feel like I trail run because I don't want those things anymore. Um, yeah, i mean it's definitely yeah. When I was racing, cycling, it was all about power numbers and every workout was, you know, you had like a range of 10, five or 10 Watts and you had to stay in that range for like 40 minutes. And then you know it's just a ton of training, a ton of numbers and and you can look at everything on training peaks and see where you're at with your fitness and fatigue. And I mean it's kind of amazing that we can train with these metrics and be so accurate. And I feel like in a sport like cycling, it's almost necessary, although I have heard that a lot of cyclists are now like not using their power meters for a time trial anymore to kind of yes, because in some ways it could hold you back too. You know like there's always kind of that discussion like yes, if you have a pace, you're supposed to run, but what do you feel amazing? And if you didn't have your watch, that same effort would have been a faster pit. You know like, i don't know, there's there's a lot of discussion, i guess, and it's kind of like two ways of of training like either very numbers oriented or more by feel. And I guess for me, after so many years of track and cross country and then triathlon and then cycling, like I like the trail running, the pace doesn't really matter, you just kind of go by feel and I can run very easy if I want to and I don't really care if I'm running 11 minute pace for these. You know, i like that lack of numbers and metrics and stuff like that. But yeah, it's definitely a big part of cycling culture.

I also feel like in the cycling world you can. There might be some circumstances where you could kind of train into infinity, like we see these 30, 40, 50 hour training weeks from some athletes. Is that anything you carry into our world Like? do you find that it's very easy to work hard and and log a lot of time on feet if you want to because of that background?

If I didn't have a coach, i would probably get sucked into training more and doing more because, yeah, with with cycling, you could really train so much like there's there's no impact, so you can just keep going and going and doing long rides and yeah. But eventually I got a job where I needed to be, you know, like be working for normal working hours, and now it's just not really realistic for me. But and I wouldn't I don't really want to train that much Like I feel like we have a lot going on in our life at this point, or my husband, like our families you know our family life right now we've got a lot going on And I'm glad that I have my time for my runs and that my family supports that. Yeah, i am glad that I also have a coach who tells me no, you can't run for eight hours today and about it, that's just not not really going to be great for your long term trajectory.

Yeah, I do love, at the end of the day, though, that I'm like not necessarily immediately post race, but very, you know, soon after the race you're already like rushing over to a journal and scribbling down notes and getting self reflective and already like putting into action things that you want to improve on in the next training cycle. Like we, i think, as professional runners, a lot of people are wondering like what can you do in the interim while you're recovering and while you're just absorbing what you just did and getting ready for the next big thing, and you're really taking this like mindset, self reflective type route and already like putting the pieces together for how to improve, and I love that. I think that's so cool. Is that something you've always done?

Thanks. I wouldn't say I've always done it, but I did feel like going into this race. Actually David just told me, you know, don't put pressure on yourself, this is just a learning experience. So, you know, go out there and during the race, think about what you can do better, like think about what we can learn from this experience and what we can take into the race ahead, which I think was really helpful, because during the race I was like let me add that to the mental list like need to need to write this down. So yeah, it was. It was nice kind of having that mindset going in to think about how I can improve. And also I feel like now that so we went from worlds and now we're doing a little vacation in Spain and my toddler husband non stop. So it's kind of nice like write it down and I can just like mentally move on to vacation mode and not really like, yeah, not, i don't know, i've kind of like moved on past the race already because I don't have time to like dwell on it, but it's only to get some wine or something to celebrate.

This is kind of a weird question, but it comes to mind because I would say you're relatively new to the sport. Like you said, you've been in it since 2018. Granted, you've been an endurance athlete for for quite a while, but given that you're sort of now at the top of the sport you know, you just were top American at the most important championship race, you know, on the federal scene Do you find that you are still quote unquote catching up to the sport in terms of what you need to be a pro athlete, or do you find that the sport is coming to you? or you're already in this groove where, like you're, you're kind of doing everything you need to be successful and to be there at the top?

I don't know. I wouldn't consider myself like a pro athlete but, I just kind of feel like there's always more that you hypothetically could do, like I'm sure I could do more strength work or recover better, like there's always more that you could do, but I kind of know that I need to. Like my time and other things is also valuable, like I get my training done and it's super important to me, but there are other things in my life that are also very important to me And so I don't necessarily spend all the time I need to on strength work because I'd rather be hanging out with my kid or, you know, taking the dog on a walk. Yeah, i guess, like there's always these trade offs that we have and there's always ways to improve. Like it will never stop if you're just always always trying to like be like that point 5% better, and I used to chase that. But I guess like kind of I have a different perspective now and I think ultra running it's just so mental to like, yeah, maybe if I did 30 more minutes of strength work a week, i could have shaved off five minutes. I don't know either, who knows, but ultimately I think it's just kind of like having a good balance in your life of whatever is important to you will help you be the best version of yourself as an athlete. Does that make sense?

Oh my gosh. Yeah, and you know you just made a really interesting point. Like I think I'm curious what motivated that switch away from the quest for that last point 5% And I think being more satisfied with just focusing on the higher leverage stuff as opposed to like, oh, i'm going to go grab like this altitude tent and instead of it for 10 hours and maybe even move my like stand up desk in there for work. Talk about like what made you comfortable moving away from, like really focusing on that like thin margin type progress.

I think that becoming a parent really changed that for me Also. I kind of struggled with like disorder to eating in college and being a parent also like helped me ultimately get over that. And I think that kind of stemmed from this like need to be that extra, you know, like that extra 0.5% better and like yeah all these things, and so I kind of like push back against it now and, like I do, like I do the really important things, you know, like I do, i do my runs and I have a recovery shake after, where like it takes two seconds right, but it's important, and like I feel, like I kind of know now the things that I need to do to be at my best, but that also includes like doing other things that I love that aren't running.

I think this is the perfect pivot and we'll link to it in the show notes. But we were fortunate to do an awesome post race sort of quick hit interview with you at the finish line and in spook you were holding your child and I found that image powerful because it proves that you can compete at the highest levels of the sport and still be a parent and still be a caregiver, still be multifaceted, and also that it's hectic right like as soon as you cross the finish line, this other responsibility immediately takes preference. So can you talk a bit about that journey of, yeah, fine tuning your running career while also bringing a kid into the world and raising them? like how closely, for example, has the reality of that balance matched your expectations heading into it?

I would say, heading into it, i didn't really have expectations. We So I had Mateo, my son, in March of 2021. So he's two years old now and even coming back to running after pregnancy. Like I really just had no expectations of how long it would take. Like I had tried to like, read so many things on Instagram beforehand and, like you know, message so many runners who had kids but, like, truly, everyone's experiences so different so some people would say, oh, yeah, i could get back to running immediately and other people would say like, wow, well, it took me a year and I'm still not feeling myself. So I just feel like everything really changes when you have a kid and and I think kind of like the lack of expectations was a good thing. Right, it was just kind of like this, going to this unknown new part of my life and I, yeah, i like running. When I, after I had him, running was kind of my solo time and it was so valuable to me just for that, regardless of if a workout went well or didn't go well, like I had my alone time outside, sometimes with my dog, and then it's kind of the thing where, once you get back home, like you're immediately on baby duty. You know like you're back to reality, you cannot be dwelling on how your tempo run, when or whatever. So it's definitely just like a constant reality check. And, yeah, it's hard to say like in terms of my expectations, because I really didn't know what anything would look like after becoming a parent, but at the same time, it's been incredibly special to like share so many cool moments with my son and like he comes on, runs with me and now he runs with me basically. So, yeah, we've been fortunate enough to have him come to so many races with us, like he was at western states and he was yeah, he didn't come to like Sonoma, but anyways he's been to a lot of races and gone to some very cool places. So I feel like, even just in his life, these will. You won't remember these exact experiences, but yeah, i just hope he kind of like gets something from this whole thing that I'm doing and that my husband is doing with me.

I'm sure there are a fair number of folks listening or watching that are aspiring parents or are, you know, at some point in the near future will bring a child into the world and they still, at the same time, want to maintain or improve upon their running, keep this high performance training and race and lifestyle going. Were there any concerns that you had heading into the process that didn't bear out and you actually found like, oh, i actually had time to like do this workout or to recover properly, like, were there any, any things that you can like confidently dispel to give folks in the audience more confidence about this process?

I would say that I can only speak for my own experience and childcare has been very helpful. Yeah, i would say that, like, everyone also needs a break at some point. Right, like we love I love my son so much. But, yeah, my husband and I both need breaks and usually that break coincides with a run or bike ride or something like that. And I guess I feel like everyone says you know, once you have a kid, your life changes and you can't do anything anymore. But that's really not the case And we, we bring our son everywhere we go, like we bring him on hikes. He's gone to the top of 14ers. He comes to get beers with our friends after bike rides and he doesn't drink the beer, he just hangs out. But just to be clear.

Did not assume that. Did not assume that.

But yeah, i just feel like you will decide for yourself how a child will impact your life and like you will create the environment or the life that you want. Like you can let a child completely not take I don't know, take like your social time away or take your running away. Like you can let that happen or you can figure out ways to get in your runs or go hang out with friends. Like to me it's like a decision that you can make as a family and as long as, like, everyone is on board, it can truly be, you know, whatever you make a bit. So I guess I push back a lot against the whole thing that, like, you can't do anything once you have a kid Cause.

Yeah, Well, no, and I love that sentiment and it reminds me, like I have. I have a couple friends here in the Salt Lake area who are heavily involved in the ultra scene and they've had a kid, but it hasn't stopped their level of involvement and they've even gotten this shirt for their daughter. She's two years old and it says future aid station captain. Oh my God, that's amazing, which I think is amazing, and we might even see it on display in future races. but like I think that it's so emblematic of like you can have a kid and, as opposed to the fear that like it's going to remove you from the scene, you can do this really safe, sustainable way of integrating them in and showing them like how special it is, and I don't want to say like charting the course of their future, but like giving them a healthy dose of you know what ultra running, for example, is all about.

So I love it And like, what experience for kids to like. oh, yeah, out of nature and like seeing all these people going by and like doing their best, like I mean, it's just, it's just amazing, like they won't remember that exact moment, but maybe they'll like remember the feeling, or, you know, like I feel, like they'll take something with them from these experiences. So, yeah, well, my two cents.

No, amen, amen. A couple more questions here before we wrap up. Seems like there was a lot of change for you heading into this year. You noted that you were dropped by a sponsor in December and I'll editorialize here for a minute. I found that your stock is rising. You're an incredibly dynamic person with so many interesting vantage points that you know, in a very positive way, i think, are marketable. So that that kind of shocked me. But how has that process, for example, influenced your approach to the start of this year, the first half of the year, like, did it feel ultimately liberating in a sense? Take that in, you know, in any angle you want.

Yeah, i would say it's definitely been liberating for me. I guess in some ways, when I was sponsored I kind of felt like I didn't deserve it or I was only as good, as whatever my last result was, and I felt like I had to get top 10 at Western States or this would happen, or you know it was. I guess at the time it was like a lot of pressure for me And so I guess in some ways it's been good so far this year, like I don't want to go to Western States and that's okay, right. I kind of felt like there was a pressure, like I had to do Western States or had to do the Golden Trail series, and if I didn't, then you know, like they would drop me and like I don't want to do those races, you know, and I realized that this year, like I was telling, well, actually, western States, last year I got in the lottery but like I felt like I had to do it and had to get a good result and, yeah, of course, i like wanted to race at that because, like, how cool, like it comes to do Western States and it is a very cool race and it's just not for me and so this year I can look at it and be like, okay, well, i don't want to do the Golden Ticker races. Like those are not. that's not what makes me really happy, i guess and it's not what really brings me a lot of joy, and now I'm really saying that I want to do these mountain races Like this is so cool, like this is where I want to be. I want to be on the top of mountains and on ridgelines and like long descents, like this is the kind of running that I love, and so I guess this year it's kind of been nice to just focus on something that I really want to do, regardless, like I don't care what other people think, and just you know, go for that and like put all my eggs into that basket and like, yeah, if I didn't make the world's team, it's fine, i could have pivoted to the mountain house. That's totally cool. So it's just nice. Like I feel like I have kind of a freedom now, but yeah, so we'll see what happens. But at least to start this year it's kind of like. It's kind of just like open my eyes to see, like what I actually want to be doing in this sport and like where I feel like I can excel, and so it's giving me that opportunity to kind of like find that for myself, instead of kind of like chasing what I thought I was supposed to do.

So fascinating and, yeah, i think one of the big things I've learned over the last two years doing this podcast is how much race bonuses and marketing directives dictate where so many talented athletes like yourself go. Like I always wonder if there were no particular incentives, if there were no restrictions, where would athletes land if they had total racing freedom? Like, what would the composition of these start lines look? like Highloan, some 100, wasatch, you know any of these Aerovibe races we've talked about? how would they look if there were no strings attached to where athletes go? and that's not really a question, but I just wanted to follow from what you said. It's totally fascinating to me.

Yeah, i totally agree, and I mean, that's kind of what I've been finding my way through this year.

Last question I have for you and, by the way, allison, thank you so much for this conversation. It's been great to meet and hear more of your story. You have a great blog and I hope that you resume it at some point because the writing is excellent and I love your thoughts and we'll link to it in the show notes. But I was scrolling through it before this conversation and found a post titled quote always find your highlights and quote, and I think it's a great note to wrap up on What have been some of the highlights in your trail racing created date that immediately come to mind.

Well, first let me say I didn't even know that my blog was still active. Like I feel like I got an email a while ago that was like we're shutting it down. You haven't been on in so long, so good to know. But yeah, i guess so far in my trail running career, i would say a lot of my highlights are truly just adventures that I go on in Colorado. So I'd say one of them is there's a Forteiner route from Mount Beardstatt to Mount Evans and it goes across this thing called like the sawtooth. It's kind of like a class four, class three, maybe class three four scramble, i don't know. So you can do that and then you can actually make a loop and come up the backside of Beardstatt and that one is like class four scrambling. And so one of the coolest things so far for me for trail running has been trying to do that route in 2021. And I was like so scared, i was like white knuckling, everything moving so slow. And then I went and did it last year and just like flew across it like no problem And so just feeling like that kind of improvement in like the terrain that I really love to be in. It's so rewarding and I know it's not a race, but to me that's part of the reason why I do trail running just to like, for me, doing that solo build so much confidence, like to complete this route that is a little bit scary for me, it was a little bit scary for me. And like to go back and just like see how much I've improved, just like moving through the mountains and like to me that's like it's one of the best parts of trail running and part of the reason that I train And so I would say that's been a highlight. And then like finishing western states, even though maybe it wasn't necessarily the race that I wanted, but like crossing the finish line of 100 mile race. You know it's crazy, 100 miles and I feel like that's just a huge accomplishment, no matter what your time is or anything. And so that when I ran across with my son which was so fun and it was it was amazing. And then, and then being in being an Austria, because I probably would have never gone to Innsbruck and it is the most beautiful place I've probably ever been You could look at photos of it, but until you're there and seeing just these incredible mountains just rising up from the town, like I can't even tell you. It was so hard to not go crazy running the week before the race. It was like teasing us, you know, like we just want to go explore and yeah. So yeah, i mean just having the opportunity to be in some incredible places around the world.

It's the shaman effect to it's like. You see, a lot of American athletes go over for UTMB a week or two in advance and they can't hold the reins back. They have to go smash a 20 mile run six days before the race, or five days.

I don't blame them honestly, like It's hard.

Where do you go from here? what is the second half of 2023? look like.

So I am in, i'm signed up for CCC, and so that is what the second half looks like right now. I don't know besides that, i don't know. But yeah, i am excited for that and I'm excited to learn how to use polls before that race and And I don't know about after that, but I do want to try for like a rim to rim to rim FK team, maybe if I can fit it in somehow. I travel there for work sometimes, so kind of hoping I could, like you know, put it on the front or back end of a work trip for, but we'll see we'll see if that works out.

Well again, allison, awesome to have you on the show, such a pleasure. Do you have any final thoughts or calls to action that you want to Share with the listeners before we go here?

I guess I would say I mean it's so cliche. But during the race I was just thinking like, ok, just one foot in front of the other. Like You just have to keep moving. You know, like, and I think like it's truly, it's just so true in life. Like I was thinking the same thing yesterday when we had three hours of sleep And my toddler was yelling in the airport and we need to get to our flight and we had like a bajillion bags. Like I was like, ok, you just got to keep moving. Just like, keep Get in the toddler to the gate. You know, like, it's just so, it's just so true in life. And like There's a lot of hard times, but seeing the finish line, or like sending the last descent, or like seeing your kid running on trails, and like just loving it, like it's just, it makes all these other moments worth it. But like you need Those moments where you're just telling yourself like one fun from the other, to like really, really appreciate the best moments. So I don't know, i guess that's my take away from the race and like super cliche to say this, but Yeah, that's my, that's my parting thought.

Thanks for listening. Before we sign off, if you are a fan of the show, please consider supporting us with a rating and a review in your podcast player, a donation on Patreon or the use of our sponsor discount codes in the show notes. We really appreciate your support. Thank you so much for listening and until next time. I'm your host, finn Milansen, and you have been listening to the single track podcast.