Adam Merry | 2023 Western States 100 Pre-Race Interview

Welcome back, or welcome to, the Single Track podcast. I'm your host, finn Milansen, and in this episode, we're joined by Adam Mary, ahead of the 2023 Western States 100. Before we get started, though, this episode is brought to you by Hoka Rabbit Morton and Features, head to the show notes page of this episode for new product releases and discount codes from each of our four sponsors. With that, let's get started. Adam Mary, it is such an honor to have you live here with us in Olympic Valley ahead of the 2023 Western States 100. What's up with you?

Well, first of all, my honor. Thanks for having me. What's up, man? We just touched down today, got the full crew here, did a little shake out. It's beautiful, like it's gonna be like, maybe kind of cool for the race Getting excited.

Word on the street.

Yeah.

It's gonna be a little cold, crazy. Well, it's gonna be a little not hot.

Yeah, yeah, relative to states, yeah.

I mean Heather Jackson was like in a park at today in our interview.

Yeah, she is heat trained.

Whoa, whoa. She's signaling to the field Light work, yeah.

But, adam, i gotta give you a lot of credit. We had you on the podcast many times, but one that sticks out was January 2022. It was post-Bander 100K In what could have been a low moment. I was impressed by how steadfast you were in your belief that at some point in time in your career you were gonna punch a ticket to states and it was all part of this mission to podium and win at this race one day. And I mean, damn it, dude, you're one step closer this weekend 2023, western states. You're on the start line. What do you credit yourself belief to in this process?

Wow, well, thanks for that dude bringing me back. Man, I don't know, maybe like short-term memory loss or something I don't know. Like no, seriously, though I don't know, like I've wanted to experience this race for a long time. You know, someone asked me recently like where'd you first learn about states? And I was like I literally don't know, like I feel like it's just in the zeitgeist of our trail running culture. It's just like everyone knows about states And I feel like maybe it's from Jim, like being coming aware of Jim and then being like oh, like, oh, wow, western, you know, but for me it's just been a dream that's been enduring And so like, even when you have a little low moment or a setback or like a race that doesn't go your way, it's just like, okay, what can I learn from this and take away? And so I think I've learned a lot of things from all the races I've done, and here I am. Hopefully I can keep applying those things on Saturday.

I gotta ask you one unrelated note. I see you're wearing a Thailand bracelet from the World Champs. Oh yeah, that's the story behind that.

Oh man, okay. So usually I cut these things off, like you know, after CCC. You get them And for some reason, like we really had a special team in Thailand, like a great group of guys on the ADK team, and it just made me smile and like brought back good memories every time I looked at it And I don't know, man, like I had it on at Chukinut. I had it on when my child was born first of all, and then wore it for Chukinut race went well, wore it for Canyon's race went well.

So it's effective.

Exactly, i'm keeping it on for states And it might come off after that, because this plastic thing is like kind of annoying with the baby but yeah, just it reminds me of all my teammates at Worlds and it helps remind me that, like I don't know, i was part of something great there and like I can dig deep and am capable of, like, maybe having a great day.

It's like Tim Tollefson, i think he kept the UTMB bands.

Yes, exactly Yeah, he's who comes to mind with that. But yeah, i don't know, it makes me smile.

Right on. So you're coming off a golden ticket at the Canyon's 100K. You know you got to feel the furnace a little bit down there. Oh yeah, experience some of the later miles of the race. How are the weeks between, you know, finishing Canyons and, i guess, where we are now been from a recovery training standpoint? You know it's not a huge turnaround, but many people have proven that that's fine.

Yeah, yeah. Well, it's funny, It seems like not a lot of time and a lot of time has gone by. At the same time, like I feel really good, like I definitely didn't do this on purpose, but I think I raced Canyons and got the job done and wasn't totally wrecked afterward. Like I felt like I could have run the next day, which was a really good sign to me. And like in the days like after the race, like got back to jogging, like didn't rush anything, no-transcript. Yeah, had a few good weeks there. Like I think my highest week was like 120. So nothing crazy. But that's the thing with the short turnaround There's not a ton of time to like build into a ton of volume. But um, yeah, i'm feeling really good. Like, um, with a race so long, like the hundred K, 65 miles at canyons. Like I feel like that's still in my system to a large extent. I've done some workouts to sharpen up and, um, yeah, tapered like in a in a good way these last couple of weeks and heart rate feels really good Like running out here to shake out earlier. Like feel so fresh. So I'm excited.

That's awesome. We uh. We just re re upped on your uh free trail training video.

Oh, great stuff.

Oh, thank you, That was super fun And, like all, kudos to Ryan.

So many questions for that. But you know, you threw one of the very trendy, you know training buzzwords out there and that was double threshold, double threshold, um secret to all my success.

Shouts to Mike Smith. Yeah, exactly.

How have you? I guess how so many people are talking about it. I don't know how many people are actually incorporating like double threshold workouts into training for trail races. Um, how is that approach been? How do you like? what do you think of that?

Yeah Well, so I think a couple of things, like one I don't know that it would work necessarily for everyone Like, and I think the thing that you get from a double threshold is like maybe something you could get from a different type of workout, like maybe just a really beastly long workout, like I think I remember like one of Cole's workouts, like he did a 90 minute like warm up and then like some crazy interval session, right, like maybe you get a similar super compensation effect from that, right. And so for me, like I do well off doubles, like most of my training in incorporates doubles like four or five days a week, and so that works for me. And, um, i guess I find that like being able to break up like a large amount of workout stimulus in one day like that and have it varied Like um, like in the training video it's like a long tempo type of like threshold effort and then short intervals, um, you kind of get to recruit some different things, be of some rest in the middle of the day, you can normatech or whatever you want to do, um and so for me it's worked well. I've been lucky, like if you run them correctly and not greedy, like I think it can reduce the rate of injury. But um and so that's what I've experienced. I haven't gotten injured from them and I think it works. I feel fit.

Yeah, yeah, we'll see. Yeah, we'll see. It's really interesting When I hear you talk about the sport and your preparation. You kind of remind me of Tom Evans. He's very academic about it, very intellectual about it. And I bring all that up because, from what I understand, you are self coach now.

Yeah.

So talk about the decision to go all in on yourself and, uh, just how much you enjoy like I don't know creating your own plan.

Yeah Well, so a couple of things. like one, i think I learned a ton from being coached by David Roach and, um, really grateful for everything he taught me. Um, and you know, i feel like I've been an athlete my whole life and I feel like I have a keen sense for how my body is feeling and like when I can lean in and when I should like lean back and like pump the brakes. Um, and I feel like that's a little easier to do when I'm more in control For some reason, like I don't know if that it probably stems from me. mostly, right, Like trouble, like being as open, right With the coaches I maybe should be, but, um, yeah, like, and I think too like with the guys that I train with in Boulder, like we have kind of a brain trust like thing and I feel like when you can bounce ideas off, each other it's hard to like beat that level of expertise. Like You know, matt has an exercise phys degrees, been running his whole life. Like Seth has been running for a very long time. He's to be a triathlete, so it's like we have like a drew as well, like very experienced athlete, and so we have a diversity of ideas And so like definitely it's not like I'm right in my training alone in a vacuum.

Bouncing ideas? Yeah, definitely. So you've got yeah, you've got the quite the group of training partners, and especially some that have a huge amount of experience at Western States. Yes, Does this feel like your first Western States?

Like yes and no, like I really do feel familiar because I've crewed twice. Um, i've raced other races that are on this course like forced to the finish, basically overlooked 50 and canyons certain extent. So I feel pretty familiar, but it's cool. I thought about coming out to training camp and I was like I actually want the first hundred K to be new, like I'm looking forward to that thing you get on race day when it's a race You haven't run of, like you don't know what's around the next corner.

Yeah.

You know and like to me, that keeps me engaged in present and it makes the race go by more quickly. So I feel like it feels like my first time, but also like I kind of know what to expect, because I've I saw Drew come through it a hundred K and he was like, oh my God, like this is so much harder It's always harder than you remember it, you know, and so I uh yeah, it's a blend of both.

I mean, we have Matt Daniels and a student here right now. He's. He's nailed Western States before big, big time, you know come very close. Do it fourth place at this race, i think, in 2019, what's the best advice you've received from him, or some of the best advice about how to approach this race?

Oh man, that's, that's a tough question. Um, i've received a lot of great advice from him. Maybe, um, maybe the best like teachings that I've had from him have actually come through getting to train with him and run with him, like I, you know Matt is one of the best like trail runners, like going, you know, in the world. He's so experienced, uh, in many different disciplines And one thing I've gained is like I know that when Matt tells me he thinks I'm fit, like he means it. I get to train with him all the time And so, you know, when I'm able to like kind of give it back to him a little bit on a run, like I know, oh, wow, like I'm, i'm getting fit, and so, um, i know like to race at a high level at this race, like you, it's not enough to just be fit, you have to be really mentally tough too, and I think I've honed that toughness over the last like year And uh, i don't know like Matt is so passionate about this race Western States and uh, he loves it And so, certainly, like that has kind of instilled in me like a love for it as well.

Are there any particular elements of this Western States course? I guess it doesn't have to necessarily have to be the course, but it could be you know, of the entire day, like what intrigues you about this particular 100 mile.

Well, the history, for one, is like very, um, compelling right. Like I want to be a part of the history And so I'm just so excited to get to toe the line. Um for sure, like I haven't seen the high country and I've heard like it's very beautiful And so I'm looking forward to that. Um, I think too, like for my strength, like I am an efficient downhill runner and I like running downhill, And so the fact that this is a net downhill course is like yes like finally, you know, like a net downhill, so that that'll be fun. I'm really looking forward to like kind of like forestall the finish, like because I know it you know, and I know how fun those trails are to run. But yeah, man, like I don't know, like I, to be fully honest, like as excited as I am to get to know all these competitors, like I hope, i think probably the majority of that will happen like at the track, because I don't like talk that much. I'm trying to save energy when I'm running, but it'll be really fun to be in company with all those people during the day.

For sure. So, referencing that free trail film again, we'll link to it in the show notes. Great film, thank you. There was sort of an underlying theme there that, heading into this year's Western States, you may have a chip on your shoulder in the sense that you're an underdog in this race.

Like.

I've always classified you as a great natural athlete. You played college football for example.

I appreciate it.

Ryan Cronin. Shout out Ryan Cronin as if you're an excellent climber because you're a great athlete. But you talk about the breathe right strips, the key tones, you know, the lightweight shoes, like finding every single possible marginal gain out there to compete at the front of this race. Did I sense that right Like? do you feel like, when you look at the competition, you are, at least in your first year, fighting some sort of uphill battle here?

I mean yeah, for sure. I mean it would be rookie to like say that, oh yeah, like you know, I'm not an underdog in my first year. Like it's, you know, I think there's a learning curve to learning how to run states. I've never run a hundred, you know. So like that's yeah, that's a debut that like I don't take lightly And I have a ton of respect for, like all of my competitors in the field. Like there's some world class athletes that have, you know, achieved the highest levels in our sport And so, yeah, like I'm kind of reverent, Like you know, with respect to all those things And, at the same time, like I kind of know, like what I'm capable of, like if I have a good day and I know when I'm capable of I have a great day, And so I know that like both of those things require me to just be patient and like be in the right frame of mind, And so that's really like mostly what I'm trying to cultivate like going into the race.

Yeah, we can. we can go into the nuts and bolts as much as you want for the strategy of the race. Yeah, yeah, I guess, to put it somewhat vaguely, like when preparing for a race like Western States, are you paying attention to particular splits throughout the race or keying off of various people effort based goals throughout the race? How do you approach something like this?

It's such a great question, Like I you know, for example, like man I would love to like key off Tyler Green, like that guy's such a smart racer, has had great success at this race, Yeah, And I feel like he might be going for the dub, and it's like he might have to race a little more, like outside of his normal style, And so it's like you never know, like I can't base my race off the way he's going to choose to run his race, and so I think, in that regard, i'll be running my own race. I know, like, what heart rate I should be at, like based on the terrain, and so, like those are the things I pay attention to on a micro level, like during different stages of the race, and that guides me to a large extent, just because I train with our a monitor race with our monitors, i know. But yeah, like in terms of strategy, man, like it's not really a secret, like for me, i'm going to be patient, run my race and then get really tough at the end.

So, like that's my strategy, if you look at 2023 to date, what is the biggest or one of the biggest assets that you've added to your toolkit as a runner heading into Western states?

Well, i love that question. You know it might seem like maybe I'm training differently. I think it's pretty similar to how I used to train, to be honest, like in terms of numbers, like I'll probably end up at like similar annual volume, but I think the biggest thing is I I have surrounded myself exclusively with, like people who fully believe in me and like put that in like on a daily or weekly basis and and it's authentic and I really believe it. And so I think like the value of that can't be understated, like I mean, i believe in myself, but like, especially when you have everyone else around you, that's like, dude, like I believe in you too, like that really means a lot. And so I think that's been the biggest difference, honestly, is like what that has done to my confidence and mindset.

Yeah, because your, your 2023 has been incredibly consistent in terms of, like, very high performing race results.

I hope to keep it that way, yeah.

And you know so many people talk about it being like oh yeah, like physically this is, but like a lot of times of fitness is the same. But you know, the confidence, the mindset is there, yes, that you know, continues towards great results.

Yeah, plus, I think positive feedback cycle, right, Like you know, when you're patient, run your own race and it goes well, it's like Oh, maybe I'll do that again And it works, You know. So, like I think I've had some signals like that, not just with being patient, but that I'm listening to as well.

I got to ask you this question because we did a men's preview episode last night And we sort of classified runners in certain categories in terms of their intentions people that are running to win this race, people that are running to podium, people that are running to secure a top 10 and run it back in 2024. Where would you put yourself in those three categories, for?

me and all of them dude. Okay really, yeah for sure, like I definitely, you know, like I would like to know that I'm coming back next year And so like, of course, top 10 is like a goal. But you know, certainly at this point, like every starting line, i line up on like I want to win.

I dig that Yeah.

And I'm gonna do it my way. Like you know, i think there's a lot of people maybe who might run closer to the front of the field when they shouldn't be, and I won't do that. Like I know exactly what I need to do to run the best time that I'm capable of And like, if that wins the race, then that's awesome And there may be some competitive moments at the end, but I think that's where it belongs is like at the end for me, like I'm not going to win the race, like taking the lead at 30 miles and like running away with it. You know, sure, yeah, yeah.

We had Tom Evans on the show a couple days back and he I didn't unprompted. He said that he thinks 1428 is going to be what it takes to win this race.

It's pretty specific, yeah, very specific. You run 1427.

And he went with the entire, like mathematical equation of why it's going to be. I mean, the guy had to go watch that.

Yeah, and respect to Tom, shout out to.

Tom Shout out to Tom, of course. What do you think? Are you prepared to take the race to that level?

I don't know, man. I mean I'm prepared, i can't with the 1428 thing. No, i mean I'm definitely. I think on a great day I'm capable of running sub 15. But I think I don't know what the high country looks like. You know, it's like I've heard the snowpack is like similar to 2019, maybe less, but I don't know man Like again my first Western states. it's like I don't know. Like yeah, i think, based on what I ran at canyons, like 808, unadjusted, like I don't know I felt at the end of that race I was like man, i could imagine running 35 more miles. And so if I slow down to 915, like you know, like if I slow down to 930 average, like I don't know, it's all speculative. So I think maybe I might break 15 hours if I had like an amazing day, but I don't know if I'm running 1428. Like that seems like another level for me at this point, but you never know.

Are you in the best shape of your life right now?

For sure, i hope, man. That's my answer every time I come on your podcast.

You look good, you look good Thanks, man.

I appreciate that Awesome.

Are you going to the tradition? Yeah, ok, we've got a tradition here that that began with Courtney DeWalter on Monday. It's Wednesday, june 21st, summer Solstice.

OK, yeah.

We have an activity for you to partake in.

Yeah, an activity.

Yeah, i mean we got to have you know, some sort of you know memento for you know you being able to come through the single track HQ.

So, ok, what do we have here?

This is the official. Oh, OK, you go. This is the official water mound of Western States.

Oh, my God dude.

And yeah, normally it's like a company, but it's like this one water mound.

OK, OK.

Official water mound of Western States.

OK, there's two things we would like you to do on this water mound. One you're going to have 15 seconds to draw your best cougar, oh my God. Ok, and then we want you to sign it.

Dude, i'm such a terrible artist, i'll give it a go.

OK.

I'm honored, by the way. Love watermelon, so yeah, so just give me this.

We'll give you a three to one countdown, then we'll go.

Oh my gosh, my best cougar. Where should I put it? Just like anywhere on here.

Yes, wherever it feels right, ok, ok Three. Three two, one go OK. Ten, nine, eight, seven, six, five, four, three, two one times up And then sign the name.

What are we looking at? Brett, i know Sharpies don't actually go, they don't sign watermelons too well, left or right. Oh, yeah, OK, love it. Oh, you went for the details. Yeah, i missed the body and the legs, but you got the claws and the whiskers and the ears And then, yeah, like some other stuff.

But yeah, OK, so Wow, This is a major honor dude. Thank you for letting me sign the watermelon.

It's been turning into like an interesting social.

Yeah, Dakotas looks like a bear or something. I mean, everyone has a different take. It's awesome dude. Yeah, Very cool.

Well, adam, seriously, every time you come on the show you're so generous with your knowledge and perspective and we cannot thank you enough And we are wishing you the best on race day. Thank you so much for the time.

Thank you both Really stoked.