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Brett Hornig and Mike McMonagle join the podcast to provide an in-depth preview of the 2023 Western States 100. We analyze the course, talk about what it's going to take to be successful, note some of the interesting storylines around the event, and yes, make our predictions for the female top 10 finishers this year.
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Oh, oh, no, Oh shit, i exploded on my microphone.
Speaker 2:Welcome back and welcome to the Single Track Podcast.
Speaker 1:My name is.
Speaker 2:Ben Mielanson, they made me do that.
Speaker 3:And there you have it.
Speaker 1:We made you do anything.
Speaker 3:Oh my gosh. Alright, we are here, we are back. We are here with the men's preview. We told you we were doing a women's preview tonight. Promises made, promises kept. I'm here with frequent colleague Brett Hornig And we are here with possibly the goat when it comes to Fantasy Free Trail, mike McMonigal On his way On his way Ascendant in the Fantasy Free Trail Sphere.
Speaker 2:Definitely in Leah's shadow And not the goat Second this weekend, though.
Speaker 3:Second this past weekend. Second at Broken Arrow. Second knows his stuff And has been doing a lot of stuff behind the scenes for Single Track to make the production here this week and last week And this weekend truly special. So go follow him at Shit in the Woods. We're just grateful for you. Thanks for doing everything you do.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for the opportunity to play a small part. Thanks, mike.
Speaker 3:Brett, how are you feeling You're coming back?
Speaker 1:from the.
Speaker 3:Great Trail Happy Hour.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we just got done rumbling at the coffee bar With Free Trail. We crashed our party. It was great. I think the last call bell has been wrong, but I was going to say drinks on Free Trail. Thank you, dylan. Yeah, it was good to do a little bit of networking. See what's going on in the village. The village is popping now. You know what is today, wednesday. It's Montessor's Day. Pretty much everybody who is racing is here now. So the village is full. We're at the capacity. We're at the capacity, so the village is full. We're at the capacity And we're ready to throw down some audacious picks.
Speaker 3:I want to say one thing about this women's field before we get into all the data out there. You know how we categorize the field Predictions, analysis, all that kind of stuff. There's one thing, in my opinion, that this women's field has that the men's field doesn't have, and that is a very clear leader. You know, we've heard Anthony Costales talk about this And we kind of entertained it all week. Courtney DeWalter is back at Western States This year. She is the alpha on the women's side. Everybody's race is based off of what she can do. There's not that on the men's side. And what else is interesting to me is there are probably three women this year, maybe four that want to follow Courtney We think want to follow Courtney in this race and challenge her for as long as possible. I find that absolutely fascinating And I cannot wait to watch this race on Saturday. Yeah, it's kind of like what we were saying.
Speaker 1:Like this is Courtney's race to lose, whereas that is not the case with the women's field. It's the race to lose, whereas that doesn't really exist on the men's side. Like there's a whole bunch of opportunities for someone to win, but I don't necessarily think there is someone's race to lose In 2021,. The last year that Jim won Western States, he won by over an hour Hour, 25. Yeah, it was his race to lose And it seemed like pretty collectively, everyone else just like decided on the start line, maybe even before the race, like we're racing for a second And just listening to the vibes and the energy around this women's field they're not going to let that happen with Courtney, Like people are going to try and beat her And I think that's awesome. What?
Speaker 3:do you think Mike?
Speaker 2:Yeah, i think I'm fascinated to see what the race looks like at Robinson Flat. Courtney sounds like she's approaching this race Like she has approached probably every race in her career for the last several years, and that's you know. She seems like she's healthy and strong and fit and ready to just empty her tank between here and Auburn. So I don't know she talks about not really thinking much about the other contenders in the field. You know whether that's just kind of a PR strategy, sort of an outward facing strategy, or if she is truly, because I can't do that, i might say, if I'm running a race, i might say that. I don't actually care about Brett running Silver State 50 on the Sun in line enough.
Speaker 1:What about, by the way, m3? Yeah, m3.
Speaker 2:I might say I don't care and it's just for fun, but I'm still thinking about him and you know how his presence on that starting line impacts my race. If Courtney is above that, which I wouldn't be surprised, because she's obviously above me in pretty much every other respect, but I don't know what does that mean? What is her going out there to empty her tank? What does that mean on these conditions, especially in the first 50K? for the rest of the field, where I expect Courtney to be comfortable in these conditions in the first 30 miles, some of those people who maybe want to race her maybe aren't as comfortable in those conditions as her. Some of them maybe are.
Speaker 1:Let's not forget that Courtney has won this race before. Winning the race is not a new thing for Courtney, where we asked her in our previous interview with her if you haven't watched it, go watch it. But maybe not right now. You can still listen to this because I'll spark notes it a little bit. She talked about how one of the biggest motivators for coming back was that she didn't finish her last time at Western States. She wanted to I don't know close that door and never come back here ever again, but it's at least get some redemption for not finishing That year. in 2019, after winning in 2018, she was well above course records, or well below course record splits, the whole time until she had that hip injury. Also, it's not foreign for Courtney to know what it's like to be at or under course record splits, but it's actually all the way through to the river. There's a lot of things that she's done on this course that other people have not.
Speaker 3:We spent a fair bit of time in last night's men's preview talking about just the current weather and course conditions that runners can expect on Saturday. Is there any new information that either of you received in the last 24 hours that we should cover and or that we may have missed in the preview episode last night?
Speaker 1:No, i mean nothing's changed.
Speaker 2:I don't know much. The preview episode last night, so I have no idea what you talked about.
Speaker 1:Yeah, i mean we're looking at potentially the fourth coldest year on record. It's very similar to 2019. That was the year Jim Walmsley set the course record. So, even though there's a lot of snow and it might be slow up in the high country, the amount of time you might lose there doesn't outweigh the amount of time you can get back from it being 20, 30 degrees cooler through the canyons. Because we're looking what? four and a half five hours to Robinson flat, maybe four and a half to five and a half hours.
Speaker 3:I think so Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, like Courtney would probably come through in that five to five thirty.
Speaker 2:Yeah, five to five thirty.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's eleven more hours of racing after that. You know there's more time to gain in those eleven hours in the first five.
Speaker 2:I also think that there's a lot of time to lose in this first five.
Speaker 1:You can burn a lot of matches.
Speaker 3:Talk about that That's really interesting.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Wow, I've never felt that thin eye contact interesting, that was palpable.
Speaker 1:I'll give you thirty dollars if you talk about that.
Speaker 2:Well, the word seems to be getting around, and it's that Anna Fisher and I did the first thirty miles of the course yesterday. I don't think we're the only ones that are getting a first hand look at some of those conditions, And so you know. I think there are some informed people among crews and runners out here, but it's. I mean, it's really, really bad. The snow is going to slow everybody down, It's not. There are going to be some people that are more comfortable on that, though. So it's like if you let it bother you, or if you're just not comfortable on it and you don't have a choice, it's going to bother you no matter what.
Speaker 1:So you would say it's snowing enough to the point where, if someone's not comfortable running on snow, it will probably bother them.
Speaker 2:For sure. Yeah, There are some people, I have no doubt you know whether it's one person in the competitive field or ten, I don't know but like there are some people undoubtedly, who will get on the conditions in the first twenty miles or so of the course and just won't be able to help it, be frustrated, be you know, lose a lot of energy And maybe, you know hopefully not but I think ankles are going to be really susceptible to a really vulnerable out there in these conditions. So, like I do think there will be carnage of several different varieties pretty early on.
Speaker 3:Okay, That's yeah. I think it'd be fun maybe later in the episode too, as we go through a lot of the contenders to talk about, to factor that in Like who do we see you know gunning for the win, gunning for a podium that we think will actually have? that is kind of fit for the current conditions in the high country, stuff like that versus you know who's fit to make up ground in the second half of the race? Couple, i think you know we did this last night with the men's field and I think it's good to do this with the women's field as well, because the takeaways are eerily similar in my opinion. And again, shout out to aid station fireball here. Liam in the chat, if you're not following Liam on Twitter, the data that he brings to the table is kind of paradigm shifting. Like we talked about this last night. Brett, about just what we're looking at here, has made us reevaluate where you know, figuratively, this race starts. I think for a long time the storyline was that the race in Western states starts at Forest Hill. The data that we have received from Liam, just crunching the numbers, would indicate that you know, in addition to, obviously, the race starting in Olympic Valley, from like a strategy standpoint, it kind of starts in Forest. Sorry, robinson Flat. Here's one interesting stat in the last 25 years there's never been a top three women's finish that has come from a runner outside the top 10 at Robinson Flat. Very similar to the stat in the men's field yesterday.
Speaker 1:So in the women's race, if you want to be on the podium, you better be in the top 10 at Robinson Flat according to the numbers.
Speaker 3:Very much in the mix.
Speaker 1:I don't believe it. Numbers are numbers.
Speaker 2:Mike, i don't believe that it's necessary. You're a dirty guy.
Speaker 1:Paradigms can be broken, yeah, well, yeah, they can which is why I just said according to the numbers, it's. Looking at the stats, I'm taking emotion out of it.
Speaker 3:Are you suggesting that this could be one of those years where that's broken?
Speaker 1:Yes, bless you, maddie.
Speaker 3:And, honestly, like if you run the numbers at other key aid stations Michigan Bluff, Forest Hill, the river it gets even more tight, Like there really is no room for error And as the race goes on, you really have to be like inching your way closer towards the front. I'll just give you, for example, a river stat here. Give me one second. Since 1998, so again the last 25 years there's only been one eventual race winner who is further back than second place at the river, and that was Ellie Green back in 2011. Ellie Greenwood sorry, Ellie Greenwood.
Speaker 1:Wow, so yeah. So historically the race has been pretty settled by the river.
Speaker 3:The race has been pretty settled by the river Male or female. This is just on the female side, just on the female side.
Speaker 1:On the men's side there's been a few more shakeups past the river, like the Andrew Miller year, the Jeff Rose year, but on the lady side it's been less. So you know, one of the things that I think is worth mentioning is that Ann Trason and Nikki Kimball skew these results For sure A lot, because they combine for 20 wins, which, yeah, that just that changes the stats a little bit. Someone in the chat asked if, like, there's no external traction devices allowed on the shoes. But would any of those shoes that have the built in traction, like microspikes or anything, help at all?
Speaker 2:They would certainly help on the snow.
Speaker 1:And then the question is the amount that they would help on the snow and then the amount that they would not help you everywhere else. Is it then worth it? I think that answer is going to change from runner to runner because, like I think so too. It's not 30 miles of straight snow. There's sections of not snow. You know, it's not rhythmic at all. So then it's just like well, do you clicky, clack it across the rocks? I don't know, i'm not trying to be a type dancer. But maybe some people are.
Speaker 3:Just a couple more brief stats here to set the table. I might have a question for both of you based off this Two stats. The last tape to tape win was Casey Lichtheig in 2016, though that was debatable because she was sharing a lot of miles early on with Devon Yanko. in the modern era and I'm characterizing the modern era as beginning around 2010, which is again debatable The most common win in this era The millennials modern era.
Speaker 1:The millennials modern era. The millennials modern era. How did we determine that to be the modern era? Modern is just this vague word. You kind of just like pick a date. Oh, i figured it was just like before and tracing, post and tracing.
Speaker 3:Before AT.
Speaker 1:After AT.
Speaker 3:Looking for a good year, but I would say the most common style of winning in the women's field in the last 13 years has been taking the lead at some point in the canyons. Ellie Greenwood did that, magda did that, courtney DeWaltre did that in her 2018 win. Ruth Croft did that last year. Where do you think the eventual race winner is going to take the lead and hold it from here on out? Mike or Brett?
Speaker 1:I think this year, i mean, the only reason I would say anything other than earlier is just because if, like, courtney, has a bad day but I don't like predicting people blowing up or anything like that So I think the winner on the women's side this year comes tape. I don't think tape to tape, like, i think, courtney, if we're not counting KC's win in 2016 as tape to tape, because someone was like Devon Yanko- was there through Red Star and perhaps Robinson as well. I think I wouldn't be surprised if there were still people with Courtney to the bottom of to Swinging Bridge I don't think she'll be by herself by Robinson Flat. I think people are going to be willing to roll the dice enough to be still there. And then I don't think Courtney's really I don't know, courtney's strengths don't really lie until, like, i don't think Courtney's going to pull away from anyone between Robinson Flat and Last Chance. But I do see from Swinging Bridge to the top of Devils Thumb. I could see that as a potential spot where Courtney starts to stretch things a little bit. What do?
Speaker 2:you think. I think I agree with that. We've seen Courtney win a lot of races and some of them have not been wire to wire. I think it was Cat Short at Bandera this year was with or leading Courtney for at least at least five, maybe 10 miles. You were on the ground for that one. I saw Cat Short come through first at the first A station, five or six miles in. I think that at Madeira. Jasmine Lothar correct me if I'm wrong was with or challenging.
Speaker 3:I'm not challenging for sure.
Speaker 2:So I definitely won't be surprised if we see somebody ahead of, at least with, if not ahead of, courtney at Robinson Flat. And I don't know, i'm curious. I just think that women's ultra running is getting better and better and better And I wonder when are we going to see somebody in? you know that, can that can stick it a little bit longer, if not for a whole?
Speaker 1:race Courtney's not on the island, finn Courtney's not on the island. I think it's like a chain of islands And like if we're talking Hawaii really. Hawaii is the metaphor, like Courtney's, like the big island, and then there's like a couple smaller islands, like Maui, kauai, you know following closely.
Speaker 3:Okay, one of the things that we did in the men's preview yesterday that I think would be good today is to maybe break up or to categorize the women's field just based on who we think is aiming for the win versus aiming for a podium, versus aiming for top 10. We were talking offline. I think that the number of people that you add to the who is gunning for the win in the podium position is actually quite minimal. I think that they're kind of the same groupings.
Speaker 1:Yeah, feel free to read off some names. I have a gunning for the win.
Speaker 3:Yeah, i've got a list here and let me know if I've missed anybody. Or and again I'm going to add one asterisk who can win or who are racing with the intention to win. So I have Edan Nielsen, courtney DeWalter, healy Henninger, katie Schied, heather Jackson, emily Hoggid. Is there anyone that you would add to that list?
Speaker 2:with the Camille.
Speaker 3:Camille, camille, camille, in these conditions, Are we talking about me expecting? to win The latter part, the intention. the intention, You're right. I would add her to the list for sure.
Speaker 1:Remind me later on when we do the top 10s I was just looking at it. Remind me to do my top eight in the form of Eminem's The Way I Am when he lists lists of all the greatest rappers, because I'm actually ready for that. So, just from one fan to another, don't let me forget about that. Yeah, camille's a good addition. Yeah, camille's definitely there for the win. Any additions to that, brad? Yeah, i mean the one that I think there's two that stick out a lot to me, you know, the first being Katie Schied. You know Katie won UTMB And I don't know. I feel like there's has to be a lot of pressure to back up that win, to prove to everyone that it wasn't a flu.
Speaker 2:Yep. Does anybody think it was a fluke?
Speaker 1:I don't know Fluke's the right word, but like not to be like a one and done because it's like the bar has been set this high, now Got to replicate another result And it's like if you win UTMB, you can't be you can't be scared.
Speaker 2:There's some. There's some weight that comes with that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you can't be scared of anyone that you're racing against if you're a UTMB champion.
Speaker 3:I also think she's someone that fares about as well as you could hope for in the current high country conditions. I see her. I put her in that micro group of runners who will not be as phased or downtrodden or depressed by the conditions up there. I think that she trudges through them. She's a mountain runner first.
Speaker 1:Yeah, i think Katie will be totally fine through the high country. I would say the biggest question marks are just your number of running miles, which you know. in our pre race interview with Katie listened or watched that one. when you get the chance Just not right now I will spark notes it. She didn't love starting the training for this race because it was so runnable, but then learned to like it because you know, as she said, it was really fun to see the actual improvements over the course of the training.
Speaker 2:Do we have context for her eco trail Paris? I think 80 K very runnable, very fast, basically 50 mile a run, i note, and she won a runner's ultra. Yes, do we have context for like how fast that her time was there?
Speaker 1:I didn't look into that. I think all I can really add to that was like it was pretty good. Yeah, i think under seven hours, yeah, it was pretty quick, Like it was a good clip, And like some of the workouts that Katie's been putting in up in flag stuff You've seen that on Stravok They've been like, yeah, very quick, Like Katie. Katie knows how to run And I think she'll be ready to. You know, throw that out there. And then you know, the other name that's I'm so intrigued by is Eda Nielsen. I think I don't know if Eda would say I'm going to try and win, but I think every race Did you have her on your list?
Speaker 3:I did. And I also have her in that micro group of like, unfazed by the high country.
Speaker 1:Yeah definitely, and like Eda, eda's performed well on the biggest stages. The biggest question mark is this is Eda's first 100 mile And that was one thing that you know down at the training.
Speaker 3:The Memorial Day training camp runs you know all the big groups are like.
Speaker 1:Eda, you're going to do so good, and she's like quit saying that I've never run 100 miles, so like she's definitely like giving a lot of respect to the distance One sec, because this is still new.
Speaker 3:Can we quickly recount the Eda Nielsen when we met her in Flagstaff story, because I think it's so funny, oh yeah.
Speaker 1:It was the very start of the. It was like day one or day two of the coconut.
Speaker 3:No, it was day one, because day one of the Dona 400 coverage.
Speaker 1:Yeah, day one of the 401k And shots to the blimp any donations that go into the chat. I don't even know if you have that set up actually, Maybe. Maybe not Any donations that go into the chat. We will van-motive general for the bloody Um. But uh, we go for a run in Flagstaff, We drive back to the Airbnb, We're getting out of the car, We're just getting ready for the day of the Cocodona coverage and Eden Ilson just rides by on a bicycle.
Speaker 2:It's Hollywood for running.
Speaker 1:It truly is. We were like we were just like in a neighborhood, like tucked away, and then all of a sudden, eden just rides by and I was just like you did so great at canyons And she was so confused that like someone just in the driveway would be yelling.
Speaker 2:You just were vomited Well yeah.
Speaker 3:I was like, congratulations She's like what, i recognized her and I was embarrassed to say hi, cause I was just I felt like you know, like a weird fan And I was like how, like she would be so like taken aback if, like I recognized her, i was like, great job at, kid Brett had the guts Could have said Brett Brett had the guts to say you know, well, yeah, i'm wearing like cheetah print shoes.
Speaker 1:Of course I'm gonna yell at the runners. I just think they were gonna say something. Thought maybe. Meow, they're paring. These Bondes are paring. Let me tell you.
Speaker 3:But yeah, so I get a couple of things I wanna say, Or no? did you have more to say about Iida?
Speaker 1:No, i think Iida's the type of runner that absolutely could be in it to win it at this race. The biggest question mark is just the amount of aggression that you might need in the middle miles of the race to win. I'm not sure how much risk she'll take, given this is her first 100 mile. If I'm a bad man.
Speaker 2:I don't think she's gonna give a shit that it's her first time running. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I think she'll, at the start line, have those hesitations, but then once she gets into the competitive mode, she'll be like oh, i'm Iida Nelson Like yeah, like it's fine.
Speaker 2:I'm Iida Nelson.
Speaker 1:Yeah, except like said in like the Swedish accent.
Speaker 2:Right, which I'm not gonna try to.
Speaker 3:Respectfully. I'm one of the greatest ultra runners of all time.
Speaker 2:Quick aside. I see a couple of corrections. Thank you, travis. Jasmine was running with Courtney at TGC not material placement.
Speaker 3:Good call for the correction. Thank you.
Speaker 2:And Katie's EcoTrail Paris was second fastest all time. I think I saw someone there. Yeah, second all time at EcoTrail.
Speaker 3:Right on. Thank you, Travis.
Speaker 2:I'm a huge Iida fan.
Speaker 3:How come?
Speaker 2:I just think she's really really gritty, really really strong.
Speaker 1:You have to watch her race at Worlds. I think any of it's.
Speaker 2:Yeah, every time I've seen her race live, she's just had her whole heart in it.
Speaker 1:It's like full, like There's kind of an intangible way to Pay attention for a while. Pay attention too, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I'm a big fan.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, geez.
Speaker 1:Maybe one day we'll get to meet her.
Speaker 2:The word vomit. Some congratulatory remarks on the sidewalk.
Speaker 3:Katie, you're so great, you're my favorite.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:I've told you how much of a fan I am, unapologetically, yeah, and I've never done one of these. I don't think I've. I haven't done one of these like preview conversations with you guys before. So anything that I say about anyone, I love everyone in this sport and everyone in this field. Any predictions that I may or may not make are not anything personal about anyone. That is great. So that's just kind of a disclaimer. And I, particularly, like I said, I love Ida, I love watching her race, The I think I was talking to Leah about this earlier, seeing her black canyon. she was hurting.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:At what? probably mile 50, 80k or so in. And that was right when she lost the lead And just the visual I have of her like hurting that bad on the trail And I saw her get passed actually by Heather and Keely. Yeah, right before that, like mile 50 or so, eight station, little creek crossing and then Yeah and that visual is like in my, is kind of imprinted in my mind. When I think about Ida running Western States here, it's like she's gonna she doesn't give a shit that it's her first time around 100 miles. She's gonna go for it. She's super strong in the mountains. She's super fast. She's been training her ass off. Yeah, ida Nelson's at NCAA Yeah yeah, and then I, and then I, and then that visual comes back to me and I see that happening in my mind's eye at like you know, something like in the ALT, like Auburn Lincoln trails, area. But her canyon like. So the other side of that is that like she was hardly running before black canyon, she was skiing all winter. She's actually been training. Now She's been training and, like, her training for canyons was totally different and was very, very good and very, very specific and she smashed it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, So it's a Western States training has been very specific to it. It's been bigger than canyon. The Memorial Day runs. You know we were. I'm fortunate to be able to have shared a couple of miles with her on the third day and she's like, yeah, this is like my first time in a very, very, very long time actually hitting back to back to back to back. 100 mile a week, that's too many backs.
Speaker 2:I just quad back like got my baby back, like hot, pretty hot, that'd be big week, little week, big week, big, big baby back. Yeah, you're right.
Speaker 1:But no, it was just back to back to back.
Speaker 3:She's like yeah, I got my baby back.
Speaker 1:Baby back, baby back 400 mile weeks in a row and healthy, felt good. She's like, yeah, like I'm actually doing, like like she was pretty happy with herself for having actually done some higher mileage training and felt good through it. So we like check this out, Look what I've been doing. So, yeah, I've got. I've got high hopes.
Speaker 3:There are four other people on this could win or have the intention to win, list that we haven't debriefed yet. I've got Keely Heninger, heather Jackson, emily Hoggud and Camille Herron. Mike, who should we talk about next from that list?
Speaker 2:Let's talk about Keely, okay, because I've got her on. I mean all of these people, i think, on my list too.
Speaker 3:Kick us off because she's she's healthy, right.
Speaker 2:She's healthy, she's fit, she's focused, she has experience at this race, you know, with a finish in 20, maybe 19, i think.
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 2:And a pretty good finish. I don't know if the time ahead, but top 10. Top 10. Yeah, top 10, i think 19,. something I want to say. So, she has experience with a you know, a good result on this course And I know that she was running, you know, very solidly and with a lot of joy last year until she was taken out with an injury. I think I know that she's had a lot of really good experience on the trails and has spent a lot of time in the area here training on the course this year again. So, yeah, she's somebody who I think is a very serious threat for the win, like objectively.
Speaker 1:Where? where are the biggest question marks for Keely over the course of this race? Like what? what? is there any part of the race that worries you about her?
Speaker 2:High country. Yeah, i mean, i don't, i don't know, does she have a lot of mountain running, type of because, really the first this first 50 K she has done CCC, yeah, and she's done quite well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, i think she had fourth there in the last year She had to drop due to an ankle roll.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:An ankle injury, so that that, just like has me nervous. then about.
Speaker 2:Yeah, i mean the first, the first 50 K of of Western States is really quite technical.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah I was?
Speaker 2:I really didn't. It's more technical than I think I remembered or realized.
Speaker 1:So maybe it's fair to say, to put her in the category of like if she can safely get through the first 50 K.
Speaker 2:Yeah, i mean, she'll be good Knowing okay, yeah, knowing that she has. She had an ankle injury last year. I, i hope that that is you know. I hope that she has kind of emotionally and mentally done what she needs to do to put that behind her. I do think that I might have said it earlier. Like people, i think that ankles will be really vulnerable on the first 30 miles. So maybe, yeah, you know, maybe that is something that could mess with some psyche, if nothing else.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you saw her race at Black Canyon. Yeah, she smashed.
Speaker 2:She smashed Black Canyon. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:That was an amazing race.
Speaker 2:That was one of the I mean Black Canyon 100 K. I know we've talked about it a lot.
Speaker 3:It was a moment in the sport.
Speaker 2:It was. It was a turning point And it was the most. I think it was the most professional race we've seen men's and women's, at least in America, and ultra running.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was just so close, like it was a race all the way to the very finish line.
Speaker 2:Yeah, And Kili came out on top. Like Kili, kili led the master class and kind of drove that turning point. I think that has to give her a ton of momentum, ton of confidence. You know, I don't think that she should think there's anybody she can't beat in this field.
Speaker 3:Chris Roest and in the chat, has a great question Who benefits the most and not necessarily someone going for the win, but who benefits the most in this field from the combination of a slower start due to snow and relatively mild temp spread? Who who comes to mind? for you So well?
Speaker 1:combination of a slower start, i think, is kind of a loaded statement, cause a lower start doesn't, or slower start doesn't necessarily mean an easier start. No, you know, if there's no snow, that leads people to running. You know, the first 30 miles way too hard. If we're talking about the lower temps over the course of the day, i think if, and only if, they can safely get through the first 50K. Someone who would be very dangerous is Camille Herron, but that's a massive if, and only if It's a good one That's a really good one For getting through the high country, Because Camille has not historically not done well in the high country on snowy years. But if Camille can make it through the high country without having burned too many matches, I would put her in that wild card category to absolutely smash the last 70. Of course do I think that's going to happen.
Speaker 2:No, So what if the race was? what if they drove the whole field up to Robinson Flat and everybody just had to stand on their feet for five or six hours, and then the gun goes off?
Speaker 3:In the current temps.
Speaker 2:Yep in the current temps.
Speaker 3:So there's five AMs.
Speaker 2:My question is does Camille win that 70 mile race? I think Like there's a lot of leg speed in this field.
Speaker 1:I think Camille's placement goes up a lot, i think Heather Jackson's placement goes up a lot, i agree. I agree. I think Courtney becomes more vulnerable because she doesn't get to wear people down in the first 50K. I think Katie Scheid also. I don't think that race scenario. I don't think that helps Katie Scheid either. I think it helps Ida Nelson. I think, well, actually I don't think it helps or hurts, ida. Ida just doesn't give a shit.
Speaker 2:Ida just doesn't give a shit, that's what I'm saying man Give a shit, sign her mouth.
Speaker 1:The first in the K. It won't be Ida, but the fact that we get to make the race.
Speaker 2:Ida very well might give a shit. By the way, i'm not putting words in Ida's mouth, that's just. We've created a caricature.
Speaker 1:But then when we get to think about, if you took out the high country and just stood around for five hours, that would play into Keely's hands too Definitely.
Speaker 3:Robert Prosser. great question in the chat What factor will contribute to the most DNFs this year? Again without naming any names, is it obviously the high country, or is it the fact that maybe there will be four or five women that go with Courtney? What do you think?
Speaker 1:I think it's the high country, but I don't think that necessarily means DNFs. Are Robinson Flat Correct? I think if we see DNFs at Forest Hill or Michigan Bluff it will be as a result of the high country. We ran the middle part of the course and we saw what was burned And if it was going to be a hundred on Saturday I would say Totally different race. I would say that's gonna be harder than the high country, but it's not. It's gonna be 80 degrees in Auburn And it will feel warm, but it won't feel like a furnace And that's a big difference.
Speaker 2:There's one say something. I wanna go back to that question about, Please, please please Sorry the one we were talking about. if Camille last 70 miles.
Speaker 3:The race from Robinson Flat to Denish.
Speaker 2:The question was who? oh, the question was who's at an advantage from a slower start, right, or like? what are the advantages?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:From a slower start and then a faster or less 70. Is that a disadvantage for somebody like Leah Yingling?
Speaker 1:I think Leah benefits from tougher conditions.
Speaker 2:Yeah, i agree. So does the slower start slow everyone down to like how she would normally race, like, i think, kind of.
Speaker 1:you know what I mean, i think Leah gets slowed down less by the high country than some other people Like if you took the top 10 from last year and make them all hit their identical splits through Robinson Flat. This year I think Leah burns less matches hitting that exact same split than other people in the top 10. So I think the high country benefits Leah. I think had it been 165 degrees out, that also benefits Leah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Leah was cold last year. at points, right Like in a hot year, she was cold. Yeah, yeah, I'm sure she was.
Speaker 2:That sounds dangerous. I know that she was never hot. I know that she never got hot.
Speaker 3:There's two more names I want to cover here, maybe three. The first one, though, and I'll say something Emily Hoggud. We had her in the studio earlier this week, and if you followed the race last year, emily Hoggud went toe to toe with Ruth Croft, or teammate. Not necessarily toe to toe, because they were working together for 50 plus miles of this race And Emily had the courage to run that race for that long, to be at the front, and I think, just based on our interview with her, she gained a lot of confidence from that experience And I don't think that that should be discounted And I think I'm very curious to see how she does here. I don't know where to group her when it comes to the people that fare decent in the high country versus people that don't fare as well in the high country, but I have her in the mix here. I have her as part of that group, i think. I think I have her as the last addition to that group that sticks with Courtney for as long as possible. I think for me it's Katie, eda, heather and Emily that try to hitch on to Courtney for as long as possible.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and in our pre-race interview with Emily if you haven't listened to that, go check it out I learned a lot about myself getting to share those miles with Ruth. Get to see it firsthand. Yep, yes, ruth did end up pulling away and winning the race And I was like, well, i deserve to be up there for that many miles. I can deserve to be up there for more miles than that in future years.
Speaker 2:And could you swap out Ruth for Courtney in terms of caliber Western states caliber I would have loved to see you, Ruth, in this field I would have too, But I think that probably you can. So I think that Emily with that experience probably shouldn't be intimidated by Courtney in this field.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, i think Ruth is one of the few that could come within shouting distance of Courtney in many races.
Speaker 3:Ruth just won the Zugs Bits Ultra outright. That's baller.
Speaker 1:Are we supposed to know with that race? Bless you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, i've heard it's Switzerland. I think it's definitely in Europe. I'll outsource that to A station five ball It's on.
Speaker 1:Earth right, it's on Earth. The returners are returning. It's definitely in the solar system. It's definitely in the solar system, ok.
Speaker 3:People have told me I'm not saying that. people are saying that it's a great race. Hey man.
Speaker 2:I don't want to. Yeah, courtney could have been beat at Bandera this year, i think. I think if this field was running Bandera this year, courtney would not have, likely would not have won, and that's what I'm talking about.
Speaker 1:Courtney puts forth the same exact performance as she did at Bandera.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Because I don't know if it's a hot taker, but if you break the race down, the execution of Courtney's Bandera was actually not very good. She went out really hard and slowed down a lot, that's right. And if you're slowing down that much and someone rolls up on you, you're probably going to get passed To your point.
Speaker 3:Courtney is vulnerable in 100Ks. I mean Ilsa McDonald beat her at Black Canyon back in. I think it was 2018 or 19.
Speaker 2:That's a lot. There's some context to that, granted.
Speaker 3:Courtney Ranchano, Brian Tooze before. But she's not impregnable.
Speaker 1:There's been a few. Yeah, i don't know if we want to slight category switch, but there have been a few people asking about some of the international golden tickets.
Speaker 3:Beth Pascal.
Speaker 1:I have the gold, It comes to mind. Oh yeah, that was the thing for this year. Some of the international golden ticket winners who are going to be lining up. Kind of to highlight a few of them, because we did yesterday, we had the returners international gold tickets, the domestic gold tickets. So from Tarawaara we have Nancy Zhang and Stephanie Austin. Don't know much about Nancy, but Stephanie Austin's training has actually looked great Like pretty consistent, like 90, 220 mile weeks with, i would say, the correct amount of climbing for Western States. And I mean, i think we're. what do you think? Are we to a point in the sport where if you want a golden ticket, you're immediately in the top 10 conversation?
Speaker 3:Depends on the class. I think we were talking about the class of 2023 Men's Field.
Speaker 1:Like, from here on out, if you've won a golden ticket, you're probably showing up to this race thinking you should be able to get in the top 10. I think so Because I know that's more people than there are in the top 10. But we are definitely. No, that's Leo. Yeah, we haven't forgotten about Esther Chalag, chalag Chalag, the peanut gallery back there. Wish we had a camera on the peanut gallery. Esther's name has been burning a hole in my pocket for lack of a better race Every single morning. Leo's like this whole conversation. I'm very excited to talk about Esther. Don't forget to talk about Esther, but yeah, maybe we should talk about Esther To your point.
Speaker 2:I do think that ultra running is at the level where golden ticket races across the world now are. You are top 10. If you're getting one of those golden tickets. You are absolutely in the top 10 conversation at Westeros, for sure, no doubt.
Speaker 3:Yeah, i think you guys are probably right. I would love to see data on the golden ticket races, and I know that it changes probably too often for this to be calculated, but the golden ticket races that supply the most top 10 performances at Western year over year. I mean it's probably going to end up being Black Caneaks. Black Caneaks has been a mainstay in the golden ticket series.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that spread. I think Liam did actually make that stat at one point, but it's hard because of how much that's actually changing And there's been some skewed golden tickets to you know where does Jim fall in this category?
Speaker 2:But to the Tarawaera golden ticket Nancy One.
Speaker 1:Tarawaera.
Speaker 2:I don't want to butcher her last name so I won't try. Nancy Tarawaera to me feels like a very translatable kind of skill set to Western states, but for this year at least, specifically someone who won Tarawaera this year, dan Jones and Nancy. that feels like really translatable talent to, of course, like Western states from what I know about Tarawaera.
Speaker 1:Yeah, i worry that it doesn't have enough vertical gain and decently It's pretty fast, but same thing could have been said about Bandera. And there's been a lot of successful Western states runners come out of Bandera. Interestingly though, we just named two golden ticket races that aren't golden ticket races for now.
Speaker 3:So maybe they're not as good a golden ticket race as I thought, but I don't know. That's the reason for the error.
Speaker 1:I don't think it is. I think there's more politics than that.
Speaker 3:Can I say one thing about Heather Jackson?
Speaker 2:It's your podcast Going back.
Speaker 3:Well, could.
Speaker 2:I say what you want.
Speaker 3:I do also want to. There are two people that I would add to our current list that I think are podium contenders, and that's Leah and Esther Trelag. But one thing about Heather Jackson we had her in studio today And she shared an interesting story about why she leans towards running these ultras so aggressively from the front, and it all relates back to triathlon and how she would always be the last of the pros out of the water, out of the swim section of the triathlon, and she was always entering that run section feeling that she needed to make up so much time, and I think that's where a lot of the aggressive nature of her strategy comes from. I just thought that was interesting And that kind of helps explain her approach to ultras. But gosh, if this was 2018, like if we had the conditions of 2018, i am. Even though this would only be Heather Jackson's second ultra, just given where she trains, how she trains, i felt like if those were the conditions, i have her as a very likely candidate for the win. This is not 2018, and these are not those conditions. In fact, they probably work not very well in her favor, but um yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and like I feel like just with where um, like women's ultra running is currently and where it's headed, like you can't win a race anymore by just going out hard and like kind of fading. Um, like I think that the motivation that would be gained, you know, by like second, third, fourth place, knowing that, oh, the leader's fading, like the type of motivation that you can draw from for that, i think, in in more and more of those circumstances that person is going to get caught, whereas historically they haven't, um, and that just goes to like this, the strength and the depth of the fields now, um, so that's why I'm curious about it, because most of Heather's races, you know, if we're looking at like, uh, havelina and Black Canyon, it was like go out and hard, go hard, and then you know micro fade, that's what we've been calling it today.
Speaker 3:Micro. I love that race. It's not blow up, I love that race And it's just fade a little bit Micro fade. But they caught a slope. Yeah, like micro fade. Rich Lockwood micro faded at Lake Sonoma.
Speaker 1:Did he? I think he did He was like up there and then he just maintained like fifth place.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:That's your go to micro fade reference.
Speaker 3:It's the latest one that comes to mind off the dome.
Speaker 2:I love it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, wow, it's like a deep cut off the dome micro fade. But you know I worry about how many places Heather Jackson might lose this year with a micro fade. It sounds like a haircut.
Speaker 2:That's. I asked for a micro fade.
Speaker 1:Mike McMonagall has a micro fade. Travis says, that's what I order at the barber.
Speaker 2:Me too.
Speaker 1:I order a Mike McMonagall at the barber.
Speaker 2:I order a Hal Kurner Me on top too, on the sides.
Speaker 1:I know.
Speaker 3:Okay, let me ask you this question. Okay, you got something? No, let me ask you this question. So, if we're extending the conversation to the people who can podium, i've added Esther and Leah to that Is. Am I missing anybody in the people who can podium category?
Speaker 2:I think that any name we've mentioned so far and that we will mention on this episode can put it like I won't be surprised if any name we've mentioned so far is on the podium, and there were probably multiple names that we won't even mention here. I have one that I won't be surprised.
Speaker 1:That I think could be on the podium And it's kind of a deep cut, but just based off of their training this year, she's very fit. That's Casey Ligtag. Yeah, i think I wouldn't put it past Casey to end up on the podium. Casey's won this race. This is what I wonder about Casey.
Speaker 2:I think she's a huge threat too this year because she's in very good shape and training Very well. Yes, do you think that she still has the competitive spark when the going gets up? And I don't know the answer. I haven't talked to her about this at all, like I really don't know. It's just something I'm genuinely curious about. Is somebody who has started is going for what her ninth top 10, like yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Or do I have that right? I don't know if it's a sharing close to it. Ninth finish in a row, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, is that like that's just I'm kind of tired thinking about doing that for nine years and especially at the level that she's done it for so many of these years. I'm genuinely curious if she's somebody who maybe is out here more because she loves being out here and Yeah, maybe is losing a little bit of the competitive spark.
Speaker 1:There's a lot of pressure to finish your ninth Western states too. Because when you finish nine, you get invited back for 10.
Speaker 2:True, so you don't want to take a lot of risks.
Speaker 1:Maybe Like yeah, so maybe you don't. Is this a two year plan for Casey of like finish number nine top?
Speaker 2:10 at number 10. Number 10.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Freaking just win number 10 with.
Speaker 1:That being said, casey was in like super good spirits at the Memorial Day runs and I think there was a little bit of like fresh life breathing. Number one because she'd been training so consistently after getting over a handful of injuries and two because Hoka finally updated the Zinall And Casey is going to be racing in the Zinall too, yeah, which I don't think that many people can get away with racing Western states in that like lightweight of a shoe, but Casey's shoe history through, you know, nike trail and then through mostly racing in the torrent. Yep, with Hoka, casey actually got to give a good amount of input on this news and all That's always exciting when you just like have a shoe that you truly love, that you get to go and run fast in like that. That leads to faster running.
Speaker 3:I think, mike, i think it's a really interesting debate because we don't have like an official like retirement ceremony in our sport and people kind of just like go out quietly. Like what would be the signs that you look for that would indicate that an elite athlete or a former elite athlete has had like a perspective change and is now running ultras for different reasons. Long trail FQT. Long trail, fqt. It's true, it's probably true.
Speaker 2:Is Casey going for the PCT FQT? Start counting your 100 mile wins or states you've won. It's Jerry season. I think it's a really good but it's specifically in this instance like I think personally I'd be a little surprised if I saw Casey In the mid, like in, maybe even in the top 10 at, like Robinson Fly, michigan Bluff. even I think I'd be like I I won't be surprised if she top 10 this race because of how fit she is and how familiar she is and how just, probably joyful, she'll be out there like I think that counts for a lot.
Speaker 1:Is Casey fit enough to conservatively race into the top 10.
Speaker 2:Yeah, i definitely think so. Which is why I put her in that podium And I think if she wanted to, i think she's probably fit enough to certainly podium. I just I think I'll be surprised.
Speaker 1:Let's start a petition like let's see an aggressive Casey, yeah, on Saturday.
Speaker 2:I mean I wouldn't, i wouldn't take the risk to that. it takes to go for that On my mind.
Speaker 1:Yes, i mean a blow up or potential DNF would be a huge disservice to the Michigan Bluff social club. I just wanted to say the name out there. Casey did get a race admin spot, i think, through Michigan Bluff, and they are listed as the Michigan Bluff social club. That's amazing.
Speaker 2:I don't know, that sounds exclusive Run.
Speaker 1:I know it does sound very exclusive, run run with that name, you know anyway you like. but I just like saying, like Michigan Bluff, i'm sure I'll never get invited to the Michigan Bluff social club, which is a bummer. I would love to at least get, you know, go to one Michigan Bluff social club dinner. but that's okay, i'm not. I haven't run Western states nine times.
Speaker 3:Should we talk about Esther and Leah?
Speaker 2:Yes, Let's talk about Esther and Leah.
Speaker 3:Let's talk about Esther and Leah Talk about.
Speaker 2:Esther, because Leah told us to Leah and I have been talking about Esther a lot. Is she here? She's not.
Speaker 1:Esther. She's in the Gina gallery.
Speaker 2:Leah, is You're stand up? I just saw her in the live chat.
Speaker 3:I genuinely did not know Leah was here. I didn't either.
Speaker 1:Leah is sitting in the kitchen. I can see her, leah.
Speaker 3:Leah 74 people are watching you right now.
Speaker 2:I like to go by those kind of like. one does not simply Rules, yes, one does not simply talk about.
Speaker 1:Esther.
Speaker 3:I'm not saying it's aliens.
Speaker 2:I think that one does not simply get fourth place at the World Championship in Thailand, a super rugged, very hot, very humid, super steep, mountainous world class competition race Or get a gold ticket at. UTMB And I think fifth at UTMB. That's UTMB and have the 240-something marathon-like speed, 245, 248. Leah can come. I just think one does not simply have that resume and not be a very serious contender at Western States.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think Esther was wearing some super cool sunglasses at Memorial Day. That counts for her. She's running camp runs. That definitely does.
Speaker 3:And she's on the Pro Trail and Association, so you know she's widely respected.
Speaker 1:Yeah, 245 at Rotterdam in April. So I'm going to assume that's in the middle of Western States training. That's 245 marathon speed.
Speaker 2:That's good enough for Western States under any weather scenario. Yeah, definitely. So yeah, I mean I think she's a serious podium, maybe even win. The one thing I don't know how she races like. I was in Thailand and I met Esther at training camp this year And I was like I need to go back and look at my Dropbox and see if I got any photos of you. I never got a photo of her, which I don't know. I mean, I was kind of focused on the Team USA, But I don't know if that means she maybe ran a really smart race because I was seeing the front of the races and then maybe she snuck. I don't know how she races Flying under the radar, Maybe Interesting, Certainly evading my lens Yeah, could be a tactic, But anyway, I don't know. That's kind of the X factor with Esther for me.
Speaker 1:Esther Chalag is a art historian as well. Wow, my source for that is Leah. Leah said Esther is an art historian.
Speaker 2:Leah for president. Yes, agreed.
Speaker 3:I think we got to talk about the top returning American in this race.
Speaker 2:That's my roommate.
Speaker 1:That's your roommate. Yeah, oh my gosh, that's the one giggling in the peanut gallery.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think we do need to talk about her.
Speaker 3:We think that this course suits her very well. Course or conditions. Course and conditions.
Speaker 1:Yeah, i mean I think there's other courses in the world that probably suit Leah better, but when this one has difficult conditions that's more favorable. I think one thing that you gain hugely is the fact that Leah raced last year. It's still pretty fresh in her mind Like went to the Memorial Day training camp, runs Like she's seen the course. She had an insane winter to train through Snow, the high country. That's not going to be as big of a challenge as some of her competitors. And then it comes down to just executing all the pieces of the race from Robinson Flat to the finish. And I think Leah learned last year. She didn't really turn it on until after the river Seems like she's learned like OK, maybe I can flip that switch a little bit earlier this year, and that's exciting.
Speaker 2:That's a hand raise for Liam in the chat. I want some Leah stat.
Speaker 3:Yep Dish dish.
Speaker 1:Oh, I wasn't reading. I was too busy actually talking about these strengths Instead of just raising our hands.
Speaker 3:And we had a great conversation with Leah earlier today. I believe it's up on YouTube right now And it should also be on audio players, But I think she's just in a great mindset And she's had a lot more luxuries this time around that she didn't have last year, which I think she's more fresh coming into the race And I think she has an easier pre-week kind of cool down taper here at Western States Sorry, Olympic Valley And there's just some more things working in her favor this year.
Speaker 1:One thing that Leah mentioned in her pre-race interview again, if you haven't watched it, definitely go watch that It's great Is that the lead up this year to Western States is completely different And that's exciting. Last year Leah raced a lot. Leah's always raced a lot. Leah's a serial racer. She's actually had a chance to get in a pretty just solid training block this year And I think that's going to benefit her, because it's just been a while since Leah got to just hunker down and train without doing a race And that definitely, as you gain experience in the sport, you don't need to race as much. Like it's fun too. But when we're getting up into this upper end of the sport, sometimes it's like, yeah, you can't be a social butterfly all the time. You got to just hunker down.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's Leah's social butterfly.
Speaker 1:Well, she races so much, i imagine it's just because she just likes talking to people Hang out. So yeah, i'm excited to see what kind of race Leah puts together on Saturday, because she's been able to just train and focus on the Saturday.
Speaker 2:Actually, i have a question, please, before I say what I might want to say. I think when you guys were talking to Arlen earlier Arlen Lick, i forget the vocabulary you used Maybe you called him like a 100 mile runner.
Speaker 3:I'm not a specialist.
Speaker 2:You asked if he would consider himself a 100 mile, what would you? is there a classification like that that you would use for Leah? I don't think that Mr Lee is a distance one, leah has second at Way.
Speaker 1:Too Cool this year. I don't know if I ever see Arlen getting on the podium at Way.
Speaker 3:Too Cool.
Speaker 1:No, yeah, yeah, what category? Who? OK, maybe we'll be able to create a category. Who else would you put in this category?
Speaker 2:with Leah. Here's maybe something. Do you have something, or is that a?
Speaker 1:question No, that was a question.
Speaker 2:When I was kind of looking when we're doing our all-around of the year conversation and everything last year and this is something I just thought of I didn't have this on deck when I asked this question Leah to me stood out as one of the highest range ultra runners, in kind of the North American contingent which Brett said talking about Way Too Cool reminded me of that. Second at Way Too Cool top American in freaking Thailand 85K bullshit, race Bullshit is in just insane conditions and crazy gnarly Lame discount. You know like six at Western States last year. You know there's a lot of range from in distance, in terrain, in kind of vert profiles. There's a ton of range there. So maybe that would be a good classification. Is like a very dynamic kind of.
Speaker 1:I think I would put Emily Hoggid in that category.
Speaker 3:I would put Ruth Croft in that category too, Ruth Croft is a very rangey runner.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, very rangey runner. I would put Courtney DeWalter in that category. I don't think I would put Courtney in that category, Although actually you know what? Sorry, I take that back. Courtney can run fast.
Speaker 3:Courtney got top tenets, Sears and all.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and Courtney's run Everything from Well. Courtney's run some fast 100 mile and 24 hour track races.
Speaker 2:And Moe and 240 and one Bandera, and of course you got a for Courtney there, yeah, so I think Ruth Courtney, Emily Hoggid, Leah, I think they all kind of do slot into that. None of them are necessarily specific specialists at a distance or even on a certain terrain.
Speaker 1:They're like specificity specialists, where they have a race coming up, they train for that race. It usually goes pretty good, zygama.
Speaker 3:Zygama. Yeah, sorry, word vomited. Thank you, travis.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so yeah, i'm going to call them the specificity specialist. I like them.
Speaker 2:One thing that I think I want to say about Leah and I've told her this many times this year already I think that there is no 100 mile race, and this is actually kind of a good follow up from what we're just talking about. I don't think there is a 100 mile race in the world that you could put this field of women in, that Leah is not a very likely top five, whether it's a track, 100 miler, utmb. Western states I don't think there's a single 100 mile horse in the world, that's a great point.
Speaker 1:OK, what about if they got on the start line on Saturday and they spun a giant wheel of fortune? thing, and it told you what course it was going to be, and then it would just be that course. Do you think, leah, as a type of runner that would be pretty suited for whatever it ends up falling?
Speaker 2:Well, only if she had a spreadsheet already created for each of the possibilities on the wheel.
Speaker 1:Yeah, if she knew all 100 possibilities, she'd just pair it and roll it.
Speaker 2:And then she'd just line up for whatever was picked.
Speaker 1:Yeah, if Leah's race goes well, can we please make her Western state spreadsheet public? Maybe put it on Etsy and sell it for $5 a download.
Speaker 2:It's really nothing fancy, I don't think.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but it's good, it's just very deliberate and very thorough. I guess I will say her spreadsheet last year and the one that I made were almost identical. The only difference is that Leah actually executed it. But when you look at our splits like we never talked about that before, but then when you look at our splits and what the total finishing time was, we both wrote down, i think within 10 minutes, at the same time and our splits were almost identical this year, mostly because we mirrored Camelia Mayfield's best race, leah last year.
Speaker 2:her spreadsheet. there were three finishing times. there were three prior races that she had based her race last year off of and they were between 1815 and 1842 or something finish times And she ran 1832, i think I was amazed by that.
Speaker 1:Wait, why don't I have Camie Breias in my list? Is she back? Was she fourth last?
Speaker 3:year.
Speaker 2:Is she out? I think she's out.
Speaker 1:No, she's out, she's out with injury. Yeah, she's out, she's out No she had the surgery.
Speaker 3:She had surgery. She's out, ok. one more thing I want to do before we get into our fantasy-free trail. Top 10 Picks is just acknowledging people that we think in Top 10. And I'm going to read off a list of names. We can go deep on any of them or add to them. I've got Katie Asmuth here. We didn't talk much about Camille Herring earlier, so I'll add her there.
Speaker 1:Riley Brady, nicole Bitter, taylor Nolan, meg Morgan, priscilla Forge Yeah, i want to talk a little bit more about some of these new Western states rookies that have the potential to run pretty well. I mean, i think Meg Morgan's race at Black Canyon this year was super impressive And one thing that stood out to me was like it was a very smart race. Meg was hanging back for a while and slowly moved up and was not afraid to pass people late in the race And really mature race. Yeah, it was a very mature race. That's important for Western states, definitely. I think the only reason why I didn't put Meg in the podium potential category is because there's an amount of risk that you have to take if we're running for the podium. I don't know if this is the year for Meg to try that. I believe this is her 100 mile debut And while Black Canyon is similar, this race is a much beefier version of Black Canyon. The other runner that I'm really excited to see is Can we just real quick about Meg before? we leave on.
Speaker 2:She's another one, though Again, anybody that we've mentioned, but Meg definitely fits this category. I would not be surprised if she podiums. I'm not expecting her to, but she has the talent. If she executes the race, she's probably physically capable of.
Speaker 1:Yeah, definitely would not be surprised. Wildcard slot. And then the other one was Riley Brady. I'm very much on the Riley. Second at Havalina, second at Havalina to Devon, yanko and Devon.
Speaker 2:Devon smashed this. This is another one does not simply kind of moment.
Speaker 1:We've been talking about Heather Jackson, this Heather Jackson that Riley beat Heather Jackson at Havalina. Riley likes runnable courses. They're not super keen on the high country, but Riley's been here all week, got to talk with them, did training camp, did training camp, got to talk with them a bunch of broken arrow. And they're like, yeah, the high country will be fine. It's not what I'm looking forward to a ton, but it'll be fine. And then I'm really looking forward to the running part of the race and getting into the faster stuff. Yeah, and again, second at Havalina to Devon Yanko.
Speaker 2:One does not simply run what 15. And we would be in change.
Speaker 1:We would be talking It was something mid, mid 15s.
Speaker 3:I got to go back and look.
Speaker 1:We, we would be talking, you know we would be throwing Devon. Yanko in all of these upper echelon categories if she was racing this year. But she's just had a nightmare of like 1445.
Speaker 3:At Havalina, problems these last few weeks, yeah there was a couple almost Yeah, that was just yeah.
Speaker 1:I hope Devon's resting up and getting ready for, you know, to just smash the second half of the summer. But yeah, I mean Camille and Devon were almost going to do the comrades Western states double. Camille made the decision not to do comrades and just focused on Western states. Devon kind of got forced into making that decision. Winner travel plans just went awry But then ultimately traveling for like 24 hours, going like halfway across the world and back ended up with getting COVID And yeah, then, just hasn't, hasn't bounced back and had to withdraw from the race, which is a huge bummer.
Speaker 2:I was very excited to see Devon in this film.
Speaker 1:I was too, because Devon was like Devon ran, like if, we, if, if Western states training camp was a stage race. And he's added the times of the three days course record. I think Devon might have won the overall, maybe course of all three days, and that wasn't because Devon was Devon wasn't. Devon wasn't like hammering the days right, like it seemed like each morning she was like hey, like good morning, like I'm just going to go do my own thing. So, yeah, i was really excited to see Devon race.
Speaker 3:One more thing about Riley. They moved to Boulder earlier this year. Boulder is one of the mechas of the trail running community. I believe Riley was living training in Eastern Pennsylvania for the years before this, which is not a hub of the community. I have to believe that they are benefiting significantly from being in that orbit of other great runners like Meg Morgan. I think that's not to be overlooked. Like when you move to a place where there's excellence surrounding you all the time, that's a huge training effect.
Speaker 2:I just met Riley's mom, by the way, right before this recording down at the free trail thing And a great woman grew up in my hometown, Bella and Marilyn.
Speaker 1:Nice.
Speaker 2:Actually still, no, still, i think Riley's mom's mom still lives in Bella. Anyway, yeah, i think the other thing Riley brings to this race is that we talked about a lot of those women that are maybe gunning for the win. I think Riley is somebody who has the talent to be on the podium or threatening for the win, but doesn't seem to be driven by any kind of ego.
Speaker 1:Do you think it might be like a multi-year process to get on the podium if Western states are Riley On the podium? Yeah, could it happen this year, or is it more likely?
Speaker 2:I don't know what their long-term goals are, but I definitely think that Riley is someone who I expect to see running a very smart race, and I think a very smart race combined with Riley's fitness equates to a pretty healthy top 10, at least.
Speaker 3:Any other names that we want to add more color to before we get to our picks? I mean?
Speaker 1:Yeah, i mean The other, the other last, like the domestic golden ticket. the last domestic golden ticket name that we didn't mention was Priscilla forgy, who got second at the canyons 100k, which was a big surprise to me, like Priscilla was not on my radar at all. Coach by David Roach.
Speaker 3:Megan Roach Swaps the age old question swap swap team, i believe swap team, i know a race at canyons. You saw some miles.
Speaker 2:Yeah, admittedly though, i didn't know who she was and and I don't Recall much from during the race, until I saw her come up a Roby point in second place, ten minutes or so behind Eda, and I know like there is you know, Eda went Significantly off course there, like at it's not insignificant amount of time. I don't know the details, but yeah, so 10 minutes behind Eda at canyons 100k. Maybe isn't a direct, like you know, reflection of kind of comparison there, but but either way that was a very solid run and it was very hot It was a hot day and Priscilla beat a lot of very talented women. Yeah, so definitely in the conversation again. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, my biggest question mark with Priscilla is just she's very pretty new to Ultra running, especially on this stage, and I don't know if she puts everything on Strava, but just the last few weeks have been minimal and I don't know if that's on purpose, like going Strava dark or not. Yeah. So it's like I don't know if there was like a sickness or slight injury or something there. That was the only question mark I had From Golden international Golden tickets. That we didn't mention was the two Golden tickets from the doi in Thinan, 100 mile in Thailand. That was Jenny Quilty and Winfrey she, who yeah, winfrey has Got second at the ultra trail in the high 100k Is like mid-April, so like already a pretty solid 100k resolved, like usually that Southeast Asia, somewhere I think it's in China.
Speaker 2:Those south.
Speaker 1:I mean.
Speaker 2:I haven't been to like a Southeast Asia ultra but Well, other than Thailand, the Thailand world champs, but I just really raises your credibility like but I, but I just based on how hard that wasn't, based on what I know about the climate and everything there like and what I've seen about You know those those really hot, i feel like they are rugged, like this, if you, if you can succeed at those that well, that's like have to be tough, that's kind of where, like Ruth Croft's, you know, a lot of Ruth Croft's initial trail running success came from was in Hong Kong.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm, i can't wait for ultra trail Hong Kong to come back. That was such a gnarly race with all those stairs and stuff. Like yeah, yeah, ruth was crushing the the kind of the Asian Trail sub ultra trail scene for a while. So like it definitely translates to your can translate to success.
Speaker 3:I Would like to humbly present to both of you my fantasy free tropics.
Speaker 2:One more name we haven't mentioned I don't think we've been mentioning as Nicole better, who I think brings a lot of I missed that on the last domestic.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're right. Yeah, that was my bad, my bad, sorry, everybody. Okay.
Speaker 2:I should like. Nicole is obviously someone who brings a lot of veteran experience.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the top level of the sport? I'm no true now.
Speaker 2:I'll let you read your notes, then I don't have them So second at bandera to Courtney DeWalton.
Speaker 1:Yeah like, also legit.
Speaker 2:Feel like held off like a mega Charging a very, very intelligent, you know composed race to like that. That second place was a very controlled.
Speaker 1:That was a Going back to the fall. Third at Havilena. Yep, yeah, also legit. This is Nicole's eighth time starting Western States and Nicole has placed as high as sixth. Most recently it was a DNF in 2021. So You know, it's only safe safe to assume that that's got to be motivating her to finish and finish.
Speaker 2:well, i'm curious Do we know her fastest time at Western States?
Speaker 1:I did not have that read. Actually, I know where it is.
Speaker 2:Thank You.
Speaker 1:Liam, let's go.
Speaker 2:Spreadsheet of all these names, so many names In any case. Yeah, i mean, i think that she's. I don't expect to see Nicole, you know, fighting for the win, and And I personally don't expect to see her, you know, gunning for the podium here. But I expect to see here, you know, in that top 20 mixed the whole day and and that's somebody who could work her way into the top, then for sure, nicole's PR on this course is 1855, which was good for seventh in 2019.
Speaker 1:Sweet, that's pretty fast sub 19.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I feel like I categorize anything as some 20. Yeah, pretty fast.
Speaker 2:Should we talk about times this year? Yeah, I was just about to say No, that's the course record watch graphic that I don't have. Actually I'll have next year's their sound effect There would be.
Speaker 1:Course record watch got it. Are we under course record watch?
Speaker 3:Absolutely, are under course record watch. I would, i would have to you. We are one billion percent Under course. Record watch Yep.
Speaker 1:Yep, we're definitely, we're definitely paying attention To the course record. I believe that there is a level.
Speaker 3:There's a category five hurricane approaching the course record. Yeah, if anyone's on her.
Speaker 1:They better. Hurricane Courtney, if you're on an island, get the sandbags ready.
Speaker 3:This is the island I was referring to. Okay, it's the course record, all right and it's under it's, under siege, i think it's.
Speaker 2:It's, it's his time and, and I'm just gonna say, like it's been 11 years.
Speaker 1:I don't want anybody watch.
Speaker 2:I don't want anybody watching this or listening to this to think that I am at all doubting Courtney or discounting Courtney. I'm going like I'm going to expect Courtney to win this race, but there are At least several women in this field that will be on the starting line on Saturday Who have, course, record potential like I don't think this is necessarily the Courtney show agree. I don't think it necessarily has to be the Courtney show agree.
Speaker 1:So Ellie Greenwood is the only, only lady to have gone under 17 hours. Do we see more than one person on Saturday going under 17 hours?
Speaker 2:Yes, I don't think so. I think we have that on either.
Speaker 3:I think we have two women that goes sub 17 this year and I believe that we have Four women go sub 18. So there's two women that finish in the 17s, two women that finish in the 16s. That is my prediction. I think we see. I believe that the entire women's top 10 goes sub 19.
Speaker 1:I think we only see one sub 17, but I think it's also sub 1640. I think we see a winning time in the 1630s this year.
Speaker 3:I'm saying 1620. What?
Speaker 1:Do you need a headlamp for 1630? I think it was like right around 16 hours.
Speaker 2:Right at it. It's 8 20, so we're at 15 22 right now. Right, so you would you have one?
Speaker 1:more hour.
Speaker 3:You're at like point.
Speaker 1:Barely. Oh man, yeah, when do we see the first Female finisher coming without a headlamp? Does it happen on Saturday? No headlamps till Auburn I.
Speaker 2:Agree mostly, i think a sub 17 win. I think it'll be corny. I wrote down actually Four men under 15, three women under 18. Is was kind of what I'm expecting. I think second and third place will be in the 17s Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, i think we're like Mike, didn't get to chime in on yesterday's. Mike, do you think the men's field is under course? record watch. No, i agree with that. I don't think it is. I think Jim's 14 oh 6.
Speaker 2:I think that's gonna take perfect conditions start to finish Yeah.
Speaker 3:I agree that it's not, but I think there's gonna be a record number of Top men finishing under 15 hours.
Speaker 1:I agreed. I could see that for sure. All right for.
Speaker 2:That's right, i was gonna say five, but four four is yeah.
Speaker 3:All right, my picks and I'm gonna do a little bit of explanation along the way According to Walter, and first Katie shyden, second Eden Nielsen and third. So right off the bat, my prediction is that a lot of that lead pack is gonna stay intact for the duration of the race. I then have Leah yingling and fourth Riley Brady and fifth Esther Chalag and sixth Emily Hogg would micro fades to seventh Heather Jackson, micro fades to eighth, katie Asmuth and ninth and Casey licked high, again 10th. Obviously, with this list there are gonna be glaring omissions.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was just about to say there are gonna be.
Speaker 3:there gonna be absolutely stunning glaring omissions. You left out Keely Henninger, i left out Keely Henninger, i Think of of what good.
Speaker 1:I only said that just so that way Matt and And Liam could just make it be known that you left out Keely, just like it start turning out some memes and Matt could say something funny. But again, you can't make a top 10 Without leaving someone out, right? you know totally. I think that that's just how. That's just how good the field, the fields are. You can't create a top 10 without Leaving someone out and pissing off someone in the chat. But that's what we're here for. That's why Finn makes the picks one more thing.
Speaker 3:So I've got Leah yingling and fourth and Riley Brady and fifth.
Speaker 2:I love that.
Speaker 3:In. I have Leah yingling finishing in fourth place but running under 18 hours on this course.
Speaker 2:I Have a yingling running in the high 1750s at least a 30 more than a 30 minute improvement from last year.
Speaker 3:Um, yeah, and I think you know we talked about in the previous interview. I think she's gonna cut a lot of time At aid stations. I bet she cuts 10 minutes at aid stations and I think she's gonna run 20 minutes faster, on course.
Speaker 2:That'd be 1812 30 minutes faster, that'd be 18 or two.
Speaker 3:Yeah, she's gonna be still not that she's gonna be very close to 18, but I think she's gonna go under 18. We don't do public math on this podcast. We don't do public. I Gotta change the rating of this, Yeah.
Speaker 1:Finn's been playing Uno and he's just been hoarding all the skip cards. Matt, i'm done picking on Finn skit Molanson. Maybe that was a skip Bayless reference, but I went to. I went to.
Speaker 3:Uno, it's a skip Bayless. I love you, matt.
Speaker 1:It's like a reverse reverse card. All right, brett, your picks. Okay, oh Yeah. No, i was supposed to. I was supposed to do like a loose freestyle, this one for Matt, because for Mike because I do it, i know you're do it. Mike's a fan. I got um yeah, so I'll end up listing my top 10, but like it's my one through eight. Okay, i Got a list. Here's the order of my list. That it's in. It goes Courtney, katie, leah Yingling, eda Heather, Emily oh shit to pop and Jay-Z goes for. Katie Leah Yingling, eda Heather, emily Heather and Keely the two others. Oh, it auto corrected Esther to Heather, so I've got. Okay, i'm gonna go from 10. Now I've got 10. Eminem doesn't, doesn't have auto correct. Eminem just makes up words because, yeah, go up. You read 10 words orange KC licked eggs getting 10th because of its Conservative 10th, but it's also still gonna be a very in lockstep so far with our picks. 9th, i have Riley Brady. I think I Don't think Riley's going to take quite enough risk early on to get into the top five. Was it in 2016? we saw Kyle Pitari Move way up. I could see Riley following a similar plan, okay, which would then secure, you know, which would then secure opportunity to run better next year, okay, but I think you know, night is still a very respectable You know place 8th place, i have Keely Henninger and, kind of like you had said, i think that's the micro fade, micro fades. I think that comes from a few two matches, a few too many matches getting burnt in The first 50 K to Robinson flat. I think the high country will take the toll just a little bit. I've got Esther Chilag in 7th Again one of those ones where it's like I think Esther has that podium potential but I don't like banking on People blowing up. So I think you know, given other people having good to great days, i think Esther falls in. That sounds fine Again with following the micro fade trend. I've got Emily Hogg good in 6th. I've got Heather Jackson and 5th. So, starting the top five, i think Heather will go out Pretty hard, but not stupid hard, i think Heather's Heather's smart like you have to be smart to have had a career that long in triathlon.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Heather is going to learn, like we've seen. All right, like Heather faded the most at Javaleena, faded much less of black Canyon, won the Canyon's 50 K.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay, we're learning some things. We're gonna have a decent race. I've got Eden Ilson in 4th and that's solely out of Aggression to try and win the race But it not going well, you know. I say it is like mega competitive to about the river. Third place I have single tracks, own Leah Yingling let's go that and so, and I think that the The Esther Chalag, emily Hogg at Heather Jackson, eden Ilson, like that whole group that's fading. I think those are the carrots that pulls Leah up into third and onto the podium. Second place I have Katie Shied. I think Katie's, i don't think Katie's going to blow up. I think Katie's gonna run aggressive and hard, just like we saw at UTM be aggressive, hard run, lost the lead for a while, yep, but Still stayed competitive. I think we will see a similar, similar race like that, and then I think a solid margin Upfront will be Courtney DeWalter Course record. Although Courtney said she doesn't care about time, that doesn't mean the course record won't happen. I'm gonna yeah, i'm gonna lock in those picks. I feel good about those ones.
Speaker 3:We've got almost identical top fours, except we swap Eda and Leah.
Speaker 1:Yes who you're tough for again.
Speaker 3:Top four for Courtney Katie Eda Leah.
Speaker 2:I'll bring a little bit of flair. Then let's hear it. Yeah, let's see what you got, mike. Again, this being the first time I do this, and now just looking at this list that We helped me make. Well, she scribed it for me, it's my thoughts.
Speaker 1:Oh, you were just talking and Leo was writing, so there's no outside influence.
Speaker 2:Yes, i hate that there are some names missing from this list. Like I, this is so hard. I like, i love so many of these people and I just hate the fact that there are names that I'm not about to say. This is Mike's nightmare. Yeah, this is horrible, but I'll I'll go for it. Are we going 10 to 1?
Speaker 3:Start and the one and the one, Yeah number 10.
Speaker 2:I have Nancy.
Speaker 1:It's our way, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yep, that's our winner number going nine for ninth, casey, casey got. Also. actually, i actually was just plugging some of these and switching some that we had written down before this. Some of this is new to what Leah wrote Nancy 10, casey 9, 9 for 9, meg Morgan in 8.
Speaker 1:A name that we both omitted We both omitted.
Speaker 2:Ok, and I think we all agree it's very possible.
Speaker 3:It's very possible, quite likely, very, very possible.
Speaker 2:Yeah, i think 8. I'm going, heather Jackson in 7th, bringing that kind of gunning for the win, maybe not being super comfortable in the high country, but bringing a ton of strength and grit to the final 70 miles. So, heather in 7th, did you have a comment? No, you're thinking about it And you're like orbiting there. Oh yeah, riley Brady, number 6. OK, i feel very good about that. Eda in 5th, let's see, is this a pretty international top 5? I've got here actually, eda in 5th Not abnormal the last year, no, yeah, it's becoming kind of a trend. Yeah, i think I've said everything I need to say about Eda, i think Esther in 4th OK, i think Leah will take that third spot on the podium. And one more thing I want to say about Leah that we didn't say earlier. She's a very good trail runner right now And I have the pleasure of joining her, obviously, on a lot of runs. How fast has she ever been? I think fastest, and most skilled and most talented and most comfortable she's ever been on trails of all different shapes and sizes. Yeah, Leah had one of the greatest saves I've ever seen on the third day of the Memorial Day training rounds.
Speaker 1:We had just started and we had a lot of training rounds. We had just started and we were on a tight downhill S-bend where it was very steep And Leah kicked something And I think every single person would have flown and just face planted and somehow Leah stayed up Just fine and just strided it out. And getting to see that firsthand, i was like, oh Yeah, the trail skills are there. Yeah, being a good trail runner.
Speaker 2:By the way. By that I don't mean coordinated, like well.
Speaker 1:Oh no, that was a display of coordination. Well, yeah, i will likely maybe have some twists or some falls or whatever, but we'll respond to it very well, because two days prior to that, on day one, there was a face playing the snow.
Speaker 2:Anyways, Leah for number three. Emily Hogg at number two.
Speaker 3:Hogg at number two.
Speaker 2:I think that experience last year really, really counts for a lot for both Leah and for Emily. I think that counts for a time. I think Emily should have all the confidence in the world that at least second place is possible for her this year, and Courtney number one.
Speaker 3:So no, katie Schaid Shut up.
Speaker 2:I don't want to talk about the names that I left off of there.
Speaker 1:There's no Katie Schaid.
Speaker 2:I don't want to talk about it. I mean, anything can happen, right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, where did you have Keely?
Speaker 2:Did you have Keely?
Speaker 3:You didn't have Keely Pardon.
Speaker 1:You didn't have Keely, and a name that I'm surprised hasn't come up in the chat that all three of us submitted was the 48-hour world record holder, camille here.
Speaker 3:Yep no.
Speaker 2:Again, we talked about all these people.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:All for the last hour and a half. These are all people who could win this race. Yeah, but I agreed Any of the names we just named in our top 10s might not finish. Yep Might be 20th, who knows, as we were joking about earlier this week there's 20 golden tickets up for grabs 20 golden tickets up for grabs 20 gold tickets.
Speaker 3:Well, i think, as podcasters often do, this is the perfect place to put a pin in it. And before we go, i want to issue a few thank yous. The first is to the live chat for bringing the energy here tonight and supplying some great commentary and questions. I want to also thank Travis Longcar for making Fantasy Free Trail possible. Travis, you've added so much fun to our lives and to the community.
Speaker 1:Automatic minus points for the Keelio missions.
Speaker 2:By the way, if any of the people that I left off happened to watch this or listen to this, they probably shouldn't?
Speaker 1:They shouldn't Hopefully nobody that we're talking about at all. You could watch it after the race.
Speaker 2:But I'm happy to talk to anybody about my reasoning or just my ignorance.
Speaker 3:But, yeah, thank you to Travis, thank you to Liam for H, jason Fireball for supplying so much of the data that we used to craft these episodes. And then our last thank you is to you, mike. You absolutely nailed it on this episode. You brought great energy, great perspective, great talking points And, because of this episode, i think we now need to start a campaign to get Brett to move to Salt Lake so we can start doing this more often. This was freaking awesome.
Speaker 1:Who's living room would we use?
Speaker 3:You guys have a pretty good living room. actually, I think your living room is nicely situated for this. It kind of reminds me of this a little bit. You've got the L-shaped couch Good work.
Speaker 2:So Thank you so much for having me And for letting me be a part of this whole week and contributing to the sport in a small way as a small part of your enormous contribution. Really appreciate you guys.
Speaker 1:It's been a lot of fun. We've got one more day with some interviews, some coverage.
Speaker 3:I'm hoping. Oh, we're going live with Billy Yang, I think, tomorrow.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:That's pretty much for sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's pretty much for sure. I'm just hoping he's not too hungover tomorrow. So that's on deck Hope. Maybe another surprise guest or two. But yeah, one more day And then Friday's going to be relatively relaxed as we try and get all our shit organized before race day. But yeah, big thanks to everyone for sticking around and contributing to the chat and helping us make this Western States preview exciting Peace.
